Clinical Skills Lab Suggestions

mom2michael, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 2, 2005

Also, I am hearing a lot about upper year studenst assisting 1st year students. Are these paid students "tutors" or is it part of the curriculum?
Thank you again! :redpinkhe

Part of our ADN program is student teaching in some capacity. Some of the 2nd year students teach the CNA class held at the voc-tech school on campus, some do study groups for 1st year students and some teach labs for 1st year students. 2nd year students are required to teach about 25-30 hours per semester for 2 semesters.

Aneroo, LPN · Feb 2, 2005

Also, I am hearing a lot about upper year studenst assisting 1st year students. Are these paid students "tutors" or is it part of the curriculum?
Thank you again! :redpinkhe

It's part of our curriculum as a senior. I am actually going to their lecture today on IV's, and will be with them in lab on Friday. Helps us get teaching needs as seniors, helps with short-staffing, and helps with the stress reduction on the first level students.

In terms of food in lab, we eat in our labs. We have two labs, and in between the two is a computer lab. The labs have several beds in them, along with any boards that the instructors may be teaching off of. We are allowed to go in anytime (0800-2100) to study, as long as there isn't another class in there. We do not sort of invasive procedures in our labs, and only have one or two dummies on a bed. It's more of a classroom than a lab. If we were to do something that is invasive (finger sticks are the only invasive things we've done that we practiced on each other), then there is no food. They're extremely strict on the no food rule in the microbiology lab though! But, our class schedule is so hectic, we may only have 30 minutes between class and lab to run a few blocks down to wait in line to get food...so a lot of times, our food would come back with us.

-Andrea

abundantjoy07, RN · Feb 3, 2005

Do you find that the more sophisticated computer driven simulators are helpful in learning or do you prefer the simpler mannequins that basically allow you to preform the task with no computerized feedback? Would the use of these simulators help with the teacher to student ratio problem - could the simulator give you enough feedback to help you?
I am learning so much - I hope you don't mind continuing the discussion!
Beth :redpinkhe

We don't have a teacher to student ratio problem. Our class is at around 66 students. Our teachers schedule things well so that we are not overcrowded. Our clinical instructor is also our lab instructor so we have the same person for everything technical per semester. I :pinkheart the mannequins because there is nothing better than hands on training. However, computerized stuff would be great too. Computers might be able to catch things our instructors don't. However, computers should not be the teachers teachers should be the teachers. But computers are great and they should be integrated on some level.

abundantjoy07, RN · Feb 3, 2005

Also, I am hearing a lot about upper year studenst assisting 1st year students. Are these paid students "tutors" or is it part of the curriculum?

We don't have upper level students assisting us. I guess it could work...but we pay for the teachers to teach us. I would feel more comfortable with a teacher in either case.

Aneroo, LPN · Feb 3, 2005

We don't have a teacher to student ratio problem. Our class is at around 66 students. Our teachers schedule things well so that we are not overcrowded. .

We didn't have a problem with our class- we had 60 some students. However, having the extra help there is awesome. They've geared the labs more to hands on than teaching. They are supposed to have read the material before lab. If you aren't prepared, you're asked to leave. For example, this week I'm helping with the labs about IV's. I'll be helping at a station with IV calculations and charting. Another student will be showing them how to use the IV pumps. Another will be showing them how to start IV's and another will be doing other things (flushes, SL...). Instructor will be in there too though. The class we're helping out with is bigger (75), and that's AWESOME, but at the same time, I think they've run into an issue with staffing. They're awesome students though. -Andrea

Catys_With_Me · Feb 3, 2005

...computers should not be the teachers teachers should be the teachers. But computers are great and they should be integrated on some level.

Completely agree, they cannot replace the instructor in any way... they simply augment the learning experience.

Catys_With_Me · Feb 3, 2005

We don't have upper level students assisting us. I guess it could work...but we pay for the teachers to teach us. I would feel more comfortable with a teacher in either case.

We don't have students helping us, so I'm not the voice of experience, but I do like the idea and this would be my preference:

The instructors do the actual teaching of a procedure and the checking off of that procedure and the 2nd years (or seniors etc..) are available in the lab to help the 1st years practice their skills, pointing out where they're going wrong, asking them critical thinking questions etc.. I would love this!

mom2michael, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 4, 2005

We don't have students helping us, so I'm not the voice of experience, but I do like the idea and this would be my preference:
The instructors do the actual teaching of a procedure and the checking off of that procedure and the 2nd years (or seniors etc..) are available in the lab to help the 1st years practice their skills, pointing out where they're going wrong, asking them critical thinking questions etc.. I would love this!

It is probably one of the reasons why I like my labs so much.....The main rational behind our program doing it (other than the fact that 2nd years are required to teach X amount of hours per semester) is that students learn best from their peers. My instructor is GREAT but you know what....it's been many a years since she's actually done that prodecure on a person because....well....she teaches how to do it on dummies :-) The 2nd years have it fresh in their mind and actually have done it on real live humans before :-) It really is the best way though. The atmosphere isn't one where you feel you are going to (oh...don't say that dreaded word) *fail* your check offs. I'm lucky though because I have a great lab teacher who only has 2 goals and that is to teach you to do it right and to pass checks off (even if it takes 10 times)

And our instructor actually teaches the procedure (or a guest speaker teaches it, depending on the topic for the day). So we are being *taught* by the teacher....we are just having it reinforced by our peers.

mitchsmom · Feb 4, 2005

More... our program emphasizes critical thinking skills more than lab type skills so we don't use the lab much (at least I'm assuming that's the rationale)... when we do it, it is usually in groups of about 10/1. There was open lab time only once before our assessment final, just a few hours, and we went once a week for about an hour when we had Assessment. We have to compete with physical therapy, etc. for lab time so it always seems ultra busy and like I said there is no open lab time. I haven't seen all the equipment in the way of mannequins... we used non-electronic bits and pieces for Assessment skills (just the pelvis for gyn, the breast to find lumps, etc.). We used our partners for most of it.

In a couple of weeks we'll go use some kind of mannequin for learning injections (one day then I don't think we will use the lab again the rest of the semester).

lil' girl, LPN · Feb 5, 2005

We have 2 instructors for 30 people. Both of them do things differently from each other. So if one instructor shows you how to do something, and then you get checked off by another instructor it can be very frustrating. And you can't dare say well so and so told me to do it like this, they will have a fit.

So my suggestion would be that whomever shows you the skill has to check you off on the skill.