RN"s and LPN's mandated to work as CNA's - page 2

I am a nursing assistant and at the nursing home where I work nurses are being mandated to work as cna's for RN pay. This has caused all heck to break loose. Many nurses are leaving because "I did... Read More

  1. by   Mijourney
    Hi. I just happened to notice yesterday that the US Congress has presented legislation which includes more LTC funding. We all know that LTC needed more money yesterday. I would not at all be surprised if the legislation is passed and signed by the president. I suspect that many factors played into this including:

    1. Boomers, who make up the largest voting bloc in the country as well as most financially well off, have increasingly made formal complaints to their respective legislators.
    2. The over 85 population, who tend to have the most chronic health problems of any group, is growing leaps and bounds.
    3. The boomers are beginning to retire and are retiring with alot of chronic health problems.

    I think the problem with LTC staffing and patient care goes beyond the usual status clash between nurses and CNAs. LTC is starting to be recognized by those who consider themselves part of the mainstream including politicians. LTC has been marginalized so long by those inside and outside of health/medical care. It's time that it gets its due. It's unfortunate that it had to get to the desperate level for mainstream recognition to take place.

    The lack of team work is certainly not new to nursing. I don't expect the problem to resolve in my lifetime. It's a matter of finding your niche and then finding that "dream" team that you know will enable you to provide the best care you know how no matter what your role or title is.
  2. by   LOPAIDNURSE
    I HAVE TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENT ABOUT LTC RECIEVING MORE FUNDS. IN MY POSITION I SPEAK WITH ADM. AND DON'S FREQUENTLY. ECF'S FOR THE MOST PART STAFF WITH THE REQUIRED MINIMUM AMOUNT OF CARE HOURS AND WILL NOT GO ABOVE THAT. IT TAKES AWAY THEIR CORPORATE BONUSES AT THE END OF THE YEAR. BELIEVE THAT YOU WORKING SHORT LINES ADM. POCKETS. THIS IS THE TRUTH. IF STAFFING WAS ADEQUATE THE HARD FEELINGS WOULD BE GREATLY REDUCED. PLEASE ALSO BE AWARE THAT FACILITIES THAT TAKE IN MEDECARE PART A PATIENTS GET A LUMP SUM OF MONEY TO CARE FOR THAT PATIENT AND ANY THING LEFT OVER THEY KEEP AS A PROFIT. SOUNDS LIKE THE FOX GUARDING THE HENHOUSE TO ME.
  3. by   canoehead
    If things are bad enough that anyone is mandated to work extra, then the supervisor who made the decision had better be staying to help too, as it is their responsibility to provide sufficient staff. Over the long term if they can't cough up enough money to attract and retain the correct mix maybe they should reevaluate, or get out of the business.

    That said, if you are needed, and have to stay I think it is best to do it working as part of the team. And if someone has offered, or things are bad enough, that they are made to stay they should have first choice of available assignments, CNA, RN, whatever. It shows respect to your coworker-in spite of the lack of respect administration has shown the whole team by being lax with THEIR responsibilities.
  4. by   Cathy RN
    I'm sorry. This is a topic that has been around for so long it makes me sick to still be discussing it. As long as I can remember CNA's, LPN's and RN's have gone around this topic. She is too good for this work, she is lazy, there is no team spirit, they think they are too good, it is beneath me.....Give me a break.....I'm and RN I have my scope of practice and Job expectations, you have yours. You respect me and I'll repect you. We have two different perspectives here.... I have more education and more responsibility/accountability please respect that. If I am called into do your job I still am expected to function within my professional boundaries. I think your management is discusting if they can not find the right person to do the right job this is not cost effective management, but heh, if they called me in to do CNA, LPN duties and are paying me RN salary, what the hell. Lets not isolate ourselves here ladies and gentlemen. It is about time we start respecting and valueing each others professions and accepting where our place is in the professional ladder. It is not beneath me to help with patient care I think this is a joint/crossover function but understand that I do more than the physical/hygiene/Activities of daily living care.
  5. by   Tiara
    It is totally unprofessional to ask/expect you to work as a CNA if you are a Registered Nurse or a Licensed Practical Nurse. If something untoward happened, would you be a CNA or an RN? Why don't you check with your nursing board. I would be very surprised if this is considered ethical behavior.
  6. by   chili2641

    Cathy RN,
    What is a nurse? How much education does a nurse have? How many cna's have you encouraged to pursue college? How many cna's do you think go to college? Why do they study in fields other than nursing? How important do you think college is to them. Do you think they are capable why or why not. So many nurses pat their selves on the back for becoming trained nurses. That is a great accomplishment. However I see no mentoring and no encouragement on their part. They seem very happy to see people stay at the bottom of the chain. Why is that?

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    Nursing assistant
  7. by   Mijourney
    Originally posted by LOPAIDNURSE:
    I HAVE TO RESPOND TO THE COMMENT ABOUT LTC RECIEVING MORE FUNDS. IN MY POSITION I SPEAK WITH ADM. AND DON'S FREQUENTLY. ECF'S FOR THE MOST PART STAFF WITH THE REQUIRED MINIMUM AMOUNT OF CARE HOURS AND WILL NOT GO ABOVE THAT. IT TAKES AWAY THEIR CORPORATE BONUSES AT THE END OF THE YEAR. BELIEVE THAT YOU WORKING SHORT LINES ADM. POCKETS. THIS IS THE TRUTH. IF STAFFING WAS ADEQUATE THE HARD FEELINGS WOULD BE GREATLY REDUCED. PLEASE ALSO BE AWARE THAT FACILITIES THAT TAKE IN MEDECARE PART A PATIENTS GET A LUMP SUM OF MONEY TO CARE FOR THAT PATIENT AND ANY THING LEFT OVER THEY KEEP AS A PROFIT. SOUNDS LIKE THE FOX GUARDING THE HENHOUSE TO ME.
    Hi Lopaidnurse. Appreciate your insight on the matter of funding for LTC or ECFs as you term the facilities and how the lack of it contributes to low employee morale, poor employee rapport, and support. I believe you that monies never are appropriated to the benefit of the frontline staff and patients. However, it would seem to me that a greater profit could be made by investing more into orientation, training, recruitment, and retention of bedside staff as well as improved working conditions. Because staff in many LTC facilities are inadequately trained, states end up allocating unnecessary money for additional oversight of these facilities to licensing entities and ombudsmans' offices when this money could be applied to staff and patient care. As you pointed out, when it comes to money, the fox is guarding the henhouse.
  8. by   Cathy RN
    chili2641

    Enough is enough of this I don't want to get in another arguement. The professional ladder is not my doing. But as education goes the LPN, CNA do not have the education the RN does to do these jobs. End of point. You can have a masters in Business, but if you work as a LPN and I as a RN then on the professional ladder I have more responsibility/accountability than you. Accept it. I also encourage and mentor all the time I work with LPN's I have encouraged and even precaptored in their RN studies. I'm not affraid to work and work hard, I just hate this issue and it has been around since I entered Nursing 28 yrs ago. So please give it a break, accept it and move on.
  9. by   chili2641

    Just be aware that any one can move up to your level and beyond it, if they choose to do so.

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    Nursing assistant
  10. by   chili2641

    I try to stand up for the cnas. I am not sure how many read this B/B but a lot of what I say has good intentions. Tonight I worked on a hall and my partners were all RN's. If it had not been for the nurses working as aids I would have been by myself. I was very appreciative and at break we all talked about the situation. Several of them are going to leave. They are not asked to pitch in once in a while they are being asked to fill in for cnas all of the time. I was able to understand their frustrations and their legal concerns. They apologized for bad talking the cnas which has been a source of frustration for me. This is probably why I vent so often about being educated. I also shared with them my goals. The whole experience was very healing for me. The crazy part, is that I put in why two week notice. I am finally ready to leave this field. I was a good cna and I love taking care of the elderly. I had a special part in my heart for the ones with no family and the patients were indigent. I will miss this job. But I am ready to move on. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to get some things off my chest. Thank you for your smart and honest answers. My grandma who I dearly love is an RN. There is no one in this world who I respect and look up to more than her.

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    Nursing assistant
  11. by   Cathy RN
    Good luck Chilli
    I am glad that you talked to the others and expressed your concerns that is the only way we can survive address ti ourselves, because nothing even seems to change or get done. The health care system is a strian on everyone. I do think it is unfortunate that you have resigned your job but I wish you the best in your future endevors. What are you planning on doing?
  12. by   ratchit
    Chili,
    There are good and bad CNAs. There are good and bad RNs. I've worked with RNs who said they didn't go to school to wipe butt. I've worked with CNAs who take 6 smoke breaks, four phone calls, plus lunch for every 30 second bathroom break the nurse gets and complain when the nurse asks them to take a pt to the BR.

    There are good and bad of all kinds, and a lot of misunderstanding between nurses and aides. Stipulated.

    But what I don't get is why you think it's the staff Rn's duty to mentor and encourage CNAs towards more education. As a professional and as the leader of the bedside team, I say please and thank you and try to work together. But your salary, your evaluation, your career goals, your development as a person are not my responsibility.

    That may sound harsh, but beyond the bedside, what anyone makes of their life is up to them. I am the teamleader and coworker for my CNAs. I appreciate and respect their hard work. But I am not their mommy or guidance counselor.

    If they want to pursue education, I am all for it. But my job is bedside care, not career advice.
  13. by   chili2641

    I am someone who beleives in mentoring. That is just my personality. I worked at a job for eight years. I watched my co-workers struggle to make ends meet. I realize that it is not your responsibility to encourage your aids to do better. I also realize that not every cna is down and out, I wasn't. To give you an idea, I am someone who works with felons. So, you know how hopeless I am. I am kind of glad that I have a passion to help others.

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    Nursing assistant

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