Read this.....

CANRN, MSN, RN · May 23, 2000

Anglenurse, Great post! I remember so well being in nursing school, chomping at the bit to get out and graduating with "visions of caring dancing in my head"

Then, REALITY HIT!!! Some things they just can't teach you in nursing school.

------------------

Nurses On The Web

http://www.geocities.comWellesley//3924/webnurse.html

Cynthia's Spot On The Universe

http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/3924/index.html

TRN · May 23, 2000

Well, angelnurse, I HAVE been in the healthcare field for over five years and I have to say that in my experience I have personally SEEN more nurses complaining but not doing much, rather than a nurse actually trying to change things. My observations are not from the outside looking in at all. I have worked closely with nurses for a long time. It's just that all of these forums are filled with nurses who complain and that's it. I did already suggest some ideas, such as writing to congress, ANA, etc. about the conditions. No, one letter will not work, but continuous letters may get some attention. I am just very discouraged because I see nurses complain in these forums, AND AT WORK, but never once has anyone said, "okay...here are my suggestions." Don't you agree that we HAVE to keep trying and trying??? If not for us, at least the for the patients???? I don't think we should give up! That's my point. Venting is wonderful, but we should bond together and have a postive forum where we bounce ideas off each other. Our profession is not respected as it should be and its our own fault. For all of you that have tried something....wonderful. My message was for those who do not, but complain. I am not going to apologize for having high hopes. Sometime, somewhere, things are going to have to change, because our patients are suffering. How about our nursing researchers doing a study on the effects of high patient ratios? It could document all the things that are not done due to time restraints. Well, I will keep my hopes up. I want respect for our profession and safer environments. If we give up...will we ever get it? Be glad I'm on your side! ;-)

angelnurse · May 24, 2000

Originally posted by TRN:
Well, angelnurse, I HAVE been in the healthcare field for over five years and I have to say that in my experience I have personally SEEN more nurses complaining but not doing much, rather than a nurse actually trying to change things. My observations are not from the outside looking in at all. I have worked closely with nurses for a long time. It's just that all of these forums are filled with nurses who complain and that's it. I did already suggest some ideas, such as writing to congress, ANA, etc. about the conditions. No, one letter will not work, but continuous letters may get some attention. I am just very discouraged because I see nurses complain in these forums, AND AT WORK, but never once has anyone said, "okay...here are my suggestions." Don't you agree that we HAVE to keep trying and trying??? If not for us, at least the for the patients???? I don't think we should give up! That's my point. Venting is wonderful, but we should bond together and have a postive forum where we bounce ideas off each other. Our profession is not respected as it should be and its our own fault. For all of you that have tried something....wonderful. My message was for those who do not, but complain. I am not going to apologize for having high hopes. Sometime, somewhere, things are going to have to change, because our patients are suffering. How about our nursing researchers doing a study on the effects of high patient ratios? It could document all the things that are not done due to time restraints. Well, I will keep my hopes up. I want respect for our profession and safer environments. If we give up...will we ever get it? Be glad I'm on your side! ;-)

Yes trn, I should be glad you are on my side. But after the harsh statements about my profession( one in which my reward comes from within), I have to do the unfortunate gesture of deciding exactly which side is that......my good or bad one. You made a totally unfair statement about housewives, trn. There's a lot of work that goes into what I do. No, I am not looking for an apology for your " high hope."

I really appreciate your "high hopes." It's just your negative opinion about individuals(Housewives)that you probably don't understand. You were wrong!.........(R-O-N-G)

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for all your ideals. Little did I know that you were in the health field for five years. And you are right, we should have a positive forum. But where do you think it starts? I'll tell you where it starts.........right where you are( FROM WITHIN )! In my opinion, these negative statements that are vented on this forum is not a dislike for the profession, but built up frustration from those who have tried to venture for a respectable field from different avenues; only to fall on deaf ear.

You see trn, there is a LOT of competition amongts us nurses. You read these post, as well as I do. You witness first hand, nurses personal opinions about one another. For example, "BSN vs ADN", "why her salary is less or more than mine" etc. Do you think for one minute we can venture towards a respectable profession with all this going on? How can we build ANYTHING with someone we are constantly looking for flaws in? You said youself, you work with nurses who do nothing but complain. Well, have you ever pulled these complaing nurses aside and asked them for a few minutes of their time to discuss what would it take to resolve their complaint? Have you ever ask them to meet with others nurses who have similiar complaints and together they can find solutions? (A small intervention such as that would have created a wonderful bond that is much needed) In all actuality, you did the exact same thing you critize these nurses of doing. You witness a problem (nurses complaining and doing nothing)and you came to this forum and voiced your complaint. But nothing was actually done.

In closing, everyone has ideals that they believe will work. It is nice to say do this; do that; try this and try that. But has anyone tried something that ACTUALLY worked for thier establishment? If so, please post. ( Even if it did'nt work, please post). WE NEED THAT INSIDE BOND!........WE NEED TO LEARN TO LOVE AND RESPECT EACH OTHER..........IF YOU HAVE A COMPLAINT OR PROBLEM WITH ME, PLEASE TELL ME!(NOT THE OTHER NURSES) I'LL TRY.

""""""""""LET'S CREATE THE INSIDE BOND"""""""

maikranz · May 25, 2000

Greetings, all.

lita, I agree 100%. I too am away from the bedside, but get my "fix"

helping with student clinicals.

Otherwise, getting a bit touchy, aren't we, nurses. "Eating our young" has progressed

to the BB, I see. I was waiting to see how long it would take for trn's head to roll when she made the unfortunate mistake of saying "lazy, nagging etc."(bad choice of words, dear. THINK first; you may have to work with one of us some day. lol)

Goodness, now feathers are ruffled and soon we'll be hearing about the

working v. stay-at-home moms. Please spare us all; one makes the choices one

has to and if you're not happy with that decision or feeling, DO something about it.

angelnurse, chill. If you finished school last year, then technically, you're looking from the outside as well, aren't you. I don't want to hear about all of your related experience as a NA, LPN, or whatever. Been there, done it, not the same thing. And there is a difference in the practice of nursing as a registered nurse than as a practical nurse.

This student has an urge and an excitement in her, but read the mostly-negative replies to her posts. And everyone wonders why administrators don't do anything but watch. All the in-fighting and arguing and NONSENSE that we do among ourselves continue to keep us divided as a group and therefore powerless. Perhaps this student will be the one who can join all nurses into as powerful a group as the AMA ( and they belong to their specialty org. as well). Who knows?

Moore · May 25, 2000

boy, do I agree with 'maikranz'! nurses are to busy fighting each other to ever be powerful. remember people "united we stand". Imagine if every nurse in the United States walked off their job for one day, one hour even. do you still think your ideas would be thrown by the way side? i doubt it. Who's better, who has more experience, who works in a certain place, who's a housewife, who CARES! Quit bickering and stand together and stand up for who is most important- the patient. and lastly please quit saying 'but i've been in this for 10, 20, 30, years, things don't change, you young people can do all this stuff, etc etc. it doesn't need to just be young nurses that make change and quit eating up on those that try!

angelnurse · May 25, 2000

Excuse me, but did you refer to me as a NA or LPN? If so, please let me know so I can correct you.

Anyways.

Little did I know that the student you are referring to with all that excitement and all that energy, has been " working closely with nurses for five years." Technically she is in there. Therefore, don't you think that bond you believe she may create should have been created by now.

Yes, I am on the outside looking in. But I enjoy visiting this forum and reading issues concerning nurses as well as every other RN; regardless of how long I graduated. It was'nt until an unfair statement about housewives was made that triggered me to write. I personally don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if she does'nt like it. SHE WAS WRONG.

You made the statement that I was unhappy with my decision to stay at home as oppose to starting my career. I would like to take this opportunity to refer you to my original post. QUESTION.......... DOES THAT SOUND LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS UNHAPPY??????? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!

In closing, you ask me to chill and I will just that.(SO much for creating a bond).

[This message has been edited by angelnurse (edited May 24, 2000).]

maikranz · May 25, 2000

Originally posted by angelnurse:
Excuse me, but did you refer to me as a NA or LPN? If so, please let me know so I can correct you.

Anyways.
Little did I know that the student you are referring to with all that excitement and all that energy, has been " working closely with nurses for five years." Technically she is in there. Therefore, don't you think that bond you believe she may create should have been created by now.
Yes, I am on the outside looking in. But I enjoy visiting this forum and reading issues concerning nurses as well as every other RN; regardless of how long I graduated. It was'nt until an unfair statement about housewives was made that triggered me to write. I personally don't care if you don't like it. I don't care if she does'nt like it. SHE WAS WRONG.

You made the statement that I was unhappy with my decision to stay at home as oppose to starting my career. I would like to take this opportunity to refer you to my original post. QUESTION.......... DOES THAT SOUND LIKE SOMEONE WHO IS UNHAPPY??????? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!

In closing, you ask me to chill and I will just that.(SO much for creating a bond).

[This message has been edited by angelnurse (edited May 24, 2000).]

No, dear. I did not refer to you as a FORMER NA or LPN, nor did I make any reference anywhere regarding your personal life decisions. Re-read the post and frankly, I'm not exactly sure why you're getting so upset or why you're yelling.

The issue under discussion, or so I thought, was speaking out, joining together, being pro-active. You seem to be making it personal on some other plane. I am too old and tired of that path and I'm not going along--sorry. And yes, kids are the greatest--my youngest son graduates from high school tomorrow and it feels as if it was yesterday.

that he was born.

DIDI · May 25, 2000

This is called a forum, a place to talk about ideas, problems ect. Nurses can come here to conplain, suggest, VENT, give some a break. Come back 20 yrs from now and give your suggestions!

braall · May 25, 2000

I UNDERSTAND HOW HOPLESS SOMETIMES THE SITUATION IS,BUT SOMETHING IS FIXING TO BREAK IN THE HEALTH CARE SITUATION AS WE NO IT.WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IS BEST FOR THE PATIENT. IF WHERE GOING DOWN LETS GO DOWN FIGHTING!YOU NURSES ARE SPECIAL PEOPLE THE SYSTEM WONT FUNCTION WITHOUT YOU.JUST KEEP STANDING UP AND THINK POSITIVE FOR WHAT YOU STAND FOR,THEY WILL HAVE TO LISTEN SOONER OR LATER.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

justanurse · May 25, 2000

I agree with DIDI, this is a forum and a place to vent. It is a "general nursing discussion", not just "happy thoughts only discussion". If I came into this forum and started calling people lazy and putting any one of you down without knowing you, I would expect no less than any of these negative replies.

Yes, doctors and lawyers get more respect than we do. And, just why does anyone think they do? Just because they are more educated? Not just that, they make more money than we do and "save the lives of people". Plus they're buddies with the attorneys who know all the politicians and have an inside track into getting bills presented and passed. How many of them are happy to go in and see that patient? Many I have seen are just happy when they walk in the door and lose that smile when they leave the room until they've discovered they've missed the family entirely and they are safely planted on the elevator leaving the hospital. Our profession doesn't make a lot of money and we don't have control over our administrations like the doctors do.

A couple more points I would like to present while this is still an open forum and I can present my side, even if it is not to the liking of some: I think all "nurses" are important. NAs, LPNs, RNs, and even those MSNs who teach us. (maikranz, if you are away from the bedside and helping those students with clinicals, then you aren't really "in there" either. You're looking from the "outside" like the others.) Yes, we should all respect each other as each of us is important and makes the job of the other just a little more bearable. And, between all of us, the patients get better care.

TRN, if you've been around nurses for five years, what have you done? You know, you don't have to wait until you've become a nurse to actually make a difference. But, you aren't going to do it by complaining that we're complaining. We know we are doing it, it is a relief valve for many of us. We don't want to blow up at the public, so we blow off to each other. Be supportive, cause in a few years you may need us to listen to you. Or, to support you with your ideas of how to make things better. I really wish you or someone would come up with something new, I would be glad to provide my support.

Next, yes we all have to make some choices in our lives. And, if we're not happy we should be able to change it. Sometimes the choice is made for us. I am a stay-at-home wife/mom for about three months, caring for my spouse. I wish I had a say in this choice, I would have chosen for the accident not to happen and my life to not have been changed. But, I didn't have a choice, so I've got to go with the flow, and be thankful for what I have. No, my feathers didn't get ruffled. I just think some people should realize there are many reasons behind the choices we make. I won't bore you with how many years I've been in nursing. I love bedside nursing, I don't want to do any other kind of nursing. And, because of my present situation, when I do go back to work, I'll not be rocking the boat when I get there. I need my job, like most nurses do. Which brings us to another point: why many nurses don't protest too much, they can't afford to. In some states you don't have a right to work and can be fired for anything, and I live in one. (And, if I walked off my job for one hour with no one to replace me, then I'm abandoning my patients. Who will care for them then? What would happen if one of them coded and died? That isn't a realistic solution to get attention.)

Lastly, no one made negative remarks to TRN, because of the idea behind the post. It was the negativism it showed toward our negativism. One negative isn't any more or less important or impressive than the other. The vast majority of nurses would support anyone who was willingly, nicely putting forth a suggestion that would better our workplace environment and help us provide better care to our patients. I know I would.

graham20 · May 25, 2000

Well done, you are spot on! I am a Nurse Manager, and I hear a long list of complaints and problems all day long (and I might add that they seem to be universal). Wherever I can act, I do, and where I can see no obvious answer, I ask for suggestions to solve the problem. I am more often than not told that it's my problem to sort it out. My opinion is that if, as a professional, I have a problem, then it is my responsibility to consider what the answer to that problem may be. If a reasoned and workable answer is available, I'll go with it. If not it will take me an awful lot longer to answer the problems of the entire staff than it would take for them to do it themselves. Unions seem to be quite adept at voicing problems with no solutions. Submit a service plan to your managers, and copy it to the business manager. Its a brave (or recless) nurse manager who would ignore it.

Good luck, persevere and you will win.

Originally posted by TRN:
I have a question......why is it that in all of these message forums I see nurses complain about their work but fail to suggest any ideas for improvement? I read many of you speaking of unions....have any of you tried to implement your ideas??? No wonder we are not respected. We sit and complain, but do nothing. Who would repesct that?? Let me give you some advice....DO SOMETHING and stop complaining. Write letters to the government, join ANA, get petitions started....anything to show administration we are serious. I don't mean to be rude, but you all sound like a bunch of lazy, nagging housewives. Remember Nurses...we are trained professionals who are educated to DO something. Write to newpapers about the horrible conditions. Anything! I'm a student nurse and I see the situation is bad, but I can guarantee you I will find ways to change it. And no, that is not idealistic, it's proactive. The ones who sit back and complain but do nothing should be ashamed of themself. Sorry if this message sounds harsh but I've heard enough and the truth may hurt...but maybe this will motivate someone to ge a little more involved. Do you think doctors or lawyers would sit and do nothing? No, because they are educated....as we all are. PLease ladies and gentlemen, let's start discussing ideas and pull together. We should be proud of our profession.

Mijourney · May 26, 2000

Hi,

I think some of the posts illustrate why this topic is so weighty. It is difficult for the nursing profession to move forward jointly when there are major internal issues to resolve.

I'm curious TRN, what led to your decision to go into nursing?