Question about an accident

[Ready]

I wanted to share something with you guys because i know you may can help me understand.

I was driving home from work one day when i witnessed a car accident. It was raining very hard and the roads were extremely slick. The car in front of me slide off the road and hit a tree on the passenger side. I slammed on breaks and ran to the scene. When i went to the car the people inside were already dead. I looked inside (which was not a good thing) and saw the passenger lying up against the window, missing half of her head. The driver was also dead, lying over in the passengers lap. This was the most horrifying thing i had ever seen. I was in total panic. I called 911 immediatley and sat there until they arrived. While i was there i just couldnt keep my eyes off them and i noticed that the passenger was somehow breathing. her lips were moving and her chest was moving up and down. Please explain this to me? Was she dead or did she have any chance at life? The police didnt arrive until an HOUR after i called them. ( I checked the time i had called the police on my cell phone). When they got there they didnt even check the pulse or anything. they threw a blue sheet over the car and waited on the paramedics to arrive (which felt like about 10 min after the police got there). I just didnt understand why no one would check to see if she could have made it or not. I asked the EMT why her chest was moving up and down like she was trying to breath and he said there would have been no chance for survival and that the body just does that (kindof like a reflex) is this true? I just cant get over what happend and i cant really describe in words how i felt. I feel as though i took things fairly well being ive never seen anything like it before. I was really scared and shocked. Just thought some of you could explain to me what i saw. Was she dead or was she dying right there in front of me? could there have been hope for her at all?

[AKav8trix]

..I can tell you that when they get calls like that..they are tripping over each other to get out the door...even the most jaded medics..because these are the calls they live for...not the 4am earache...so I agree that possibly that is truly the response time...sad but true..not everywhere in the country is lucky enough to have a ALS or even BLS unit every few miles...

Yep, I'll admit it's true...we do scramble like crazy when the tones go off for a car wreck...next to a structure fire, MVA's draw the most personnel the quickest. :) It's not that we're sadistic, wanting to see horrible things, but those are the calls where our training and skills can truly make a difference if there is a chance of being able to use them.

In the rural district I've volunteered in for the past few years as an EMT, we have a large service area to cover and some places near the edge of our district border have a 40+ minute response time (that's leaving the station within less than a minute of the tone-out) and if it's the second out, all-volunteer ambulence, it can take up to ten minutes for the staff to get to the station and get the ambulance responding, depending on how far from the station they live. (And suprisingly, compared to the truely rural areas of the state, our district is almost suburban.)

Gosh, I'm so sorry that you had to stay on scene for all that time before help came. Nobody should have to witness something like that for even a few seconds and an hour means you're stuck with nothing else to do but wait and wonder and see and smell and hear every part of that scene that no one should have to remember.

I can't encourage you enough (just as other's have) to find someone you can talk to about it...if there's a way you can talk to a chaplain from the police department or EMS agency if they have one, they're someone who's been on scenes like that, they know how to listen and how to be there for you. At least in my area, they look out for the responders (agency and good samaritans) that are struggling with the feelings and memories and doubts that linger after a traumatic event and having been around it know how to best help you help yourself get through it.

Everything you are feeling and thinking right now is normal and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Everyone reacts differently (sad, angry, frustrated, indifferent, etc...a whole range of emotions and not one of them is a wrong way to feel) and has to get through it however is best for them. Even feeling that you don't know how you are feeling is normal. You'll be in my prayers and as the others have said, over time the haunting memories do fade (but it can take a long time).

Please, PLEASE remember that you did everything you could do in your power to possibly help them (and remind yourself over and over about that if doubts try to creep back in about whether or not you reacted the right way, because you DID react the right way)...unfortunately, it sounds like they didn't have a chance no matter if EMS arrived in two minutes or 70. It's really hard to be stuck on a scene where you can't do anything to change the outcome.

Agonal breathing (the automatic last few breaths of a brain-dead person) can be very difficult to witness and can give the appearance that the person is still alive. But they aren't...and if they are more than a few minutes from a level 1 trauma center (as it was stated in a previous post) it's very, very unlikely they could ever be resuscitated, especially with the devastating head injury.

Well, take care and I wish you the best as you forge on ahead toward your career goals :)

[Aneroo, LPN]

First of all, I'm glad you weren't hurt in this accident. It's so terrifying to see a car so close to you go out of control, wondering if they might hit you. The shock of "Oh my God, that could have been me" if horrible. I agree that you should seek professional help. You might want to call the EMS station or police to see who they recommend. After a traumatic incident, personnel usually have what is called a critical incident stress debriefing, where people involved in the incident have the chance to talk about what happened, with professionals.

I also agree with the brainstem activity. It seems unreal to me the response time it took, but I've never lived in an area that was that far away from a responder. With EMS, some areas have direct protocols for no-codes (where not life saving action is performed). This includes if rigor mortis is set in, or decapitation.

You did the right thing by staying on the scene until help arrived and for even bothering to stop. Good for you, and just realize what happened to them was out of your control. -Andrea

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

What a tragic accident! And how good of you to stop and to wait for the ambulance to get there; many people would not even have taken the time to do that.

As you can see by my name, I'm a nurse who works in a hospital. I've never seen anything like what you describe. I'm certain that if I did, I would be very shaken up, and I would need to talk to someone about it.

I am posting because I have also seen dying people have that kind of breathing and sometimes other movement that is caused by brainstem activity, for a long period of time after they have died. Further, I also don't believe the person you describe was actually alive, but that there was only the brainstem activity causing the movements you describe.

Come back and talk all you need to, but I hope you will find some professional to talk to about this traumatic event that happened to you. A professional nurse could not have done any more than you did, and I commend you for your caring actions.

:icon_hug:

[maolin]

I agree that attending a CISD (critical incident stress debriefing) would be helpful for you in this situtation. I attended one after running a particularly bad MVA (2 fatalities, 1 critical w/ prolonged extrication) and I found it very helpful. You can also check with the departments that ran this call (law enforcement, FD and/or EMS) and see if you can talk to a Victim's Assistance counselor. These would be available for no fee.

I also wanted to add a comment on the response time - the OP stated that this accident happened during a heavy rain storm. I can easily imagine an hour+ response time in a rural area w/ bad weather. Compound that with the likelihood of other calls and only 1 or 2 crews to work them, necessitating a crew from neighboring area to run that particular call. It's unfortunate, but it happens. I'd guess that the weather played a bigger role in the response time than anything else.

[talaxandra]

What a horrifying experience - I hope you're starting to feel okay.

I know a lot of people have already posted this, but it doesn't hurt to repeat that from what you describe there wasn't anything you could have done that would have changed the outcome.

A nurse friend of mine had a similar scene in her front yard (young guys driving fast wiped out coming around a corner too fast). She said that she always thought it would be hard to be in a situation like that and not know what to do, but that it was worse knowing what to do and being helpless.

That said, you might want to think about taking a first aid course (including CPR) at some point, if only to help you feel better equipped.

Seeking counselling/debriefing is a really good idea.

[Ready]

What a horrifying experience - I hope you're starting to feel okay.

I know a lot of people have already posted this, but it doesn't hurt to repeat that from what you describe there wasn't anything you could have done that would have changed the outcome.

A nurse friend of mine had a similar scene in her front yard (young guys driving fast wiped out coming around a corner too fast). She said that she always thought it would be hard to be in a situation like that and not know what to do, but that it was worse knowing what to do and being helpless.

That said, you might want to think about taking a first aid course (including CPR) at some point, if only to help you feel better equipped.

Seeking counselling/debriefing is a really good idea.

I want to thank all of you for your responses. I feel very welcomed here and enjoy reading what you have to say. I do feel better about the whole accident (it happened on thanksgiving day). I was truley hurt because i felt like i wasnt able to do anything. This is one of the reasons i really want to be a nurse. I want to know what to do and how to do when in a situation like such. I want to help people and be there to comfort the family's of these people and i feel like i've been very strong in this situation and it helps encourage me even more to become a nurse. Thank you all

:)

[Aneroo, LPN]

I want to thank all of you for your responses. I feel very welcomed here and enjoy reading what you have to say. I do feel better about the whole accident (it happened on thanksgiving day). I was truley hurt because i felt like i wasnt able to do anything. This is one of the reasons i really want to be a nurse. I want to know what to do and how to do when in a situation like such. I want to help people and be there to comfort the family's of these people and i feel like i've been very strong in this situation and it helps encourage me even more to become a nurse. Thank you all

:)

I'm glad something positive has come out of this for you. While I was waiting to finish my pre-req's for nursing school, I decided to become an EMT. I had some basic knowledge, b/c I had volunteered in a ER for 3 years as a teenager. My triggering experience? I remember sitting in my living room, hearing a dog bark next door. Peeved, b/c we weren't allowed to have pets. Later on, I heard screaming. I opened my door to find out what was going on, and a young boy with a bloody eye came towards me. I gave him gauze I had in my medicine cabinet to put on it, and went next door to see what was going on. I will never forget walking in, seeing a pitbull with it jaws locked around an older woman's breast. She was screaming "he's tearing my boob off!" over and over. I remember bringing over a big knife, and one girl told me no, not to kill it. She had her hands in the dogs mouth, trying to pry it open, while her roommate, a paraplegic, was pulling on the dogs tail. Thank Go dthe dog didn't turn on her. I ran upstairs while calling 911, and finally got neighbors to come and help. They poured Kool-Aid on the dog, and he let go. Then he chomped down on her arm. I can still remember the crunch. They poured somethign else on him, and while she was running out the door, he got her on the back of her thigh. He finally let go, and we got her outside and the dog inside. I remember holding her up, applying pressure on her arm (she was bleeding badly), and telling her she needed to stay awake. I remember giving a short report to the EMT, then helping the girl in the wheelchair clean blood off of the floor of the apartment.

Long story to say this: That experience made me feel helpless. I could remember small bits of what to do, but really didn't have much of a clue. I took my lack on knowledge and made something of it. I know try to make sure I am prepared for whatever happens. I have a BP cuff, scope, and gloves in the trunk of my car. If I could get IV supplies, I would keep some of those too.

Big props to you for choosing nursing as a career from this experience, rather than running from it. -Andrea