Planning our future and outsourcing - page 2

First it was manufacturing, then IT jobs and next it may be us, and so this post is my attempt to make us think about our futures and brainstorm and maybe think outside the box to come up with new... Read More

  1. by   mvanz9999
    Quote from nerdtonurse?
    Like some of the other posters, I'm coming from an IT background. IT used to be a fun, challenging field, and I've been trying to determine why that changed. .....

    Then the MBAs came....

    I have sat in meetings where we've done 3 solid months of testing to determine the best way to accomplish something, down to software, hardware, telcom, everything, only to have an MBA who can't spell IT say, "well, I was reading in an article that you could do it THIS way...." And yup, we'd be trying to implement something that we knew from the start would never work ......
    Wow. This is a well constructed statement. It's EXACTLY what happened. MBA's come in and say "NO, we're doing it this way" and we are left to clean up the mess that we knew would occur if it was done this way to begin with.

    My huge concern is that nursing is going to end up exactly like IT. You're going to get a bunch of MBAs that have never spent a single day doing anything remotely nurse-like, essentially making the field a living hell. Added to the fact that many jobs are cut due to funding (it's a little hard to outsource nursing per se...).

    So how are you dealing with the though that there may, one day in the non-too distant future, a glut of nurses, and a lack of well-paying jobs (with benefits)? I don't want to repeat this whole fiasco again.
  2. by   Mudwoman
    In the late 1990's no one would have thought that IT would be outsourced the way it was. There are lots of people on this board that may read this thread and think we are all crazy and this could never happen, but I truly believe that in 10-15 years we will have HALF the hospitals in operation as we do today. Congress passed laws that went into effect January 2006 that elderly can no longer put assets into their children's names to avoid liquidating those assets to go to a nursing home. Given possible economic scenarios in this country in the future, the kids may decide to take care of dear old mom or dad to keep the assets from going to the government piggy bank. Law suits may be another demise of the nursing homes as we know them.

    No insurance

    No money

    No heroic healthcare

    Fewer nurses

    The nurses that survive will be the cream of the crop. Well educated. Certified. Experienced.
  3. by   HARRN2b
    This all worries me as I have the same thoughts. However, I cannot imagine going to med school today and have all those loans with an unknown as to how to pay back the loans. The future of healthcare is in dire straights.

    Actually, and this is only my opinion, this country is in dire straights. We are spending far more than we can ever afford in Iraq, we are still dependent on foreign oil and all of our products are outsourced. What if there were to be some world calamity and we needed medical products but the products were made overseas? What if we had used the dollars spent on the war in Iraq to help our own citizens? Americans, please wake up!!!!!
  4. by   mvanz9999
    So how do we counter this? As nurses, nurses-to-be? How do we protect our jobs and maximize both opportunities and compensation?

    Because I'm a victim of the IT debacle, I have no interested in making myself a second victim by spending more money to become a nurse, to have better job prospects, only to have nursing turn into today's IT.

    I have no doubt that what Mudwoman is saying is not only possible, but very likely. Is there anything we can do to assure that we will have jobs?
  5. by   HARRN2b
    We need to have politicians who protect our own interests on the homefront. That is the bottom line. Do you own due diligence and vote them out if you do not like what is going on. If you are happy with the way things are then keep them in. Simple.
  6. by   mvanz9999
    I don't believe it works that way, nor do I believe the US has a true democracy. Every 4 years we have an election, and it essentially comes down to voting for dumb and dumber. It's not voting for who you support, rather it's voting for who is the least evil.

    I can go vote myself into a frenzie, but it doesn't seem to do much good.
  7. by   canoehead
    Quote from Mudwoman
    The maternal death rate in NYC is over 20%.
    I don't think so.

    We have a shortage of nurses that want to work in the curent system. My priority would be to improve the system before I'd try finding new work to do.
  8. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from Mudwoman
    The nurses that survive will be the cream of the crop. Well educated. Certified. Experienced.
    Do you believe so? I would think that the nurses at 'the top' would be the cream of the crop, but your floor nurses would be 'cheap labor'...nurses willing to work for the lowest amount of money. It seems to me an oversupply would lower wages, forcing the more experienced to become frustrated and choose other avenues...just thinking outloud...
  9. by   nurse4theplanet
    Quote from HARRN2b
    We need to have politicians who protect our own interests on the homefront. That is the bottom line. Do you own due diligence and vote them out if you do not like what is going on. If you are happy with the way things are then keep them in. Simple.
    At a local level, this may be effective. However, at a federal level...not simple at all. Too many interests involved. If you want YOUR law passed, you have to agree to other laws being passed which you would otherwise vote against. Its a dirty business. The further up these lawmakers get, the smaller their voice becomes, and the more they are exposed to corruption. They either become part of the political Machine or are destroyed by it. Money is the driving force of federal politics and if there is no money to be made in healthcare.....you might as well hang up this pipe dream
  10. by   Mudwoman
    Quote from canoehead
    I don't think so.

    We have a shortage of nurses that want to work in the curent system. My priority would be to improve the system before I'd try finding new work to do.
    You are right that I got the % wrong. Had the 22.9 deaths in my head and just put the % on there. Still a staggering statistic.

    October 2006 American Journal of Nursing. Pg 19. A Worrisome Maternal Mortality Rate in New York State.

    Healthy People 2010 goal: 3.3 deaths per 100,000 live births
    Avg US rate: 8.9 deaths per 100,000 live births
    New York State rate: 12.8 deaths per 100,000 live births
    New York City rate: 22.9 deaths per 100,000 live births.

    Read the report from the Safe Motherhood Initiative

    http://mail.ny.acog.org/website/SafeMotherhoodrev.pdf
  11. by   Mudwoman
    Quote from HARRN2b
    This all worries me as I have the same thoughts. However, I cannot imagine going to med school today and have all those loans with an unknown as to how to pay back the loans. The future of healthcare is in dire straights.

    Actually, and this is only my opinion, this country is in dire straights. We are spending far more than we can ever afford in Iraq, we are still dependent on foreign oil and all of our products are outsourced. What if there were to be some world calamity and we needed medical products but the products were made overseas? What if we had used the dollars spent on the war in Iraq to help our own citizens? Americans, please wake up!!!!!

    Interesting that you talked about medical supplies and products. I kept ordering IBU the other day from the pharmacy and couldn't get any and we were out. I called and the Pharmacist told me they were having trouble getting it. So what's up???? Drugs like Tylenol and Advil are no longer made in the good old USA. Outsourced because it is cheaper. I don't know how true this is as I have not looked into it further, but don't have reason to believe he would lie.
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from mvanz9999
    My huge concern is that nursing is going to end up exactly like IT. You're going to get a bunch of MBAs that have never spent a single day doing anything remotely nurse-like, essentially making the field a living hell. Added to the fact that many jobs are cut due to funding (it's a little hard to outsource nursing per se...)
    Going to end up this way? This has been the case since the '80's and the MBAs making the changes to nursing without any heed to reality of how things are done?

    Hospital Admins call them 'consultants'.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  13. by   Mudwoman
    Some more thought. Went on the Bureau of Labor Statistics that the Govt puts out. For RN's the number of nurses leaving the occupation from ages 60-64 is nearly 60% of the number of nurses working in the 55-59 age bracket. Not surprising that after age 59, we find the work too physically demanding.

    But, what if there is no Social Security, no retirement benefits, no way to quit working for many of us? I could not live on the proposed Social Security wage of $800 that I might get at age 62 and my full retirement age is now 67.

    Some more info.

    There are approx 2,500,000 RN's. Avg pay is $27.35 hr. 1,400,000 approx work in hospitals.
    States with the highest concentration and largest percent of state employment are: Mass. (avg $32), S. Dakota (avg $23), MS (avg $23), W. Virg. (avg $23), and Maine (avg $25)
    Top paying states: CA(avg $34), Maryland (avg $32), Mass (avg $32), Hawaii (avg $32), N. Jersey (avg $30)

    There are approx 725,000 LPN/LVN's Avg pay is $17.41. The number employed in Nursing Hms and Hospitals is about even.
    States with the highest concentration and largest percent of state employment are: Arkansas, LA, W. Virg, OK, MS (salaries avg $13.50)
    Top paying states: Conn, D. C., N Jersey, Mass, RI (sal avg $22)

    APN/NP. There are approx 58,000. Avg wage $42.13 hr. Most all work in Hospitals and Dr Offices.
    States with highest concentration: MO (avg $43) RI (avg $38) IL (avg $18) AZ (avg $63) ID (avg $27)
    Highest paying states: MT (avg $85) AR (avg $78) NV (avg $76) SC (avg $70) W. Virg (avg $67)

    In the avg's above I have rounded to the nearest $$ for simplicity.

    Best Metro area to work for an RN: San-Jose/Sunnyvale/Santa Clara, CA with avg of $42.28 hr.

    Best Metro area for LPN/LVN: San Francisco/San Mateo/Redwood City, CA with avg of $25.05

    Best place for NP/APN: Clarksville, TN/KY with an avg of $94 hr. Close behind is Kingsport/Bristol TN/VA and Prescott, AZ with $93 hr.

    In doing all this, I have to admit that living in the Hot Springs, AR area and it being one of the worst places for LPN's, this probably gives me a different paradigm of the future. But, a lot of the nursing "shortage" has to do with older nurses leaving the profession in their 50's and baby boomers getting socialized medicine called Medicare. I don't think the boomers can afford to retire. They will work till they drop and there won't be much money for medical care for them. Lots of people will be hoping they drop soon.

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