Nursing Theory???

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Nursing theory...science!...NP=I can diagnose...

I graduated 20 years ago....I vaguely remember the actual nursing theorists that we studied, except that Sister Callista Roy rings a bell. The BScN was a REAL BSc program...1st year we took chemistry,psychology,sociology(with the other thousands of 1st year university students), nursing,and anatomy&physiology with 1st year med students& physiotherapists...cadaver labs and everything..2nd year organic chemistry...it was brutal...your other choice was to do the 2/3 year diploma course, and it concentrated on clinical skills, and social sciences, not the pure sciences...now in Canada we only have baccaleaureate nursing students...no more diploma's...but the program has changed to become what is really a Bachelor's of Art or of Applied Nursing Theory, yet some schools still call it a BSc...in Taber's there is a list of 17 different nursing theories...no wonder our profession isn't taken seriously..can anyone name another profession that does this? But I guess the bottom line is theory is here to stay for now, no matter how outdated and complicated some can be, so you bite the bullet and learn it to complete your nursing course...yes it can "suck", but it will prepare you for the REAL world of nursing, where you will find many things that "suck" every day (short staffing,not enough beds, incompetent doctor's..)...but I do love being a nurse despite all the things that suck..:roll GOOD LUCK !!!!!:nurse:

Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur

There are careplans on a program that only require that you know the patients medical DX. After that you're just checking appropriate boxes with the click of the mouse.

You will never use them.

You may pause for a second and think that you used some theory, but it will just be a feeling that you forgot something you learned sometime for something.

I think what we will find is that we will be taught all this nursing theory crap and then later in the real world, will need all the medical knowledge that they shyed away from because "nurses don't do that" and not have a clue as to what really makes people sick, and how medical science will heal them.

Maybe that's why new grads suck................ya think?

I am sorry that you feel that way, but I do hope you realize that the new grads really don't have much of a choice in what their instruction was! It is what they teach us (and what they fail to teach us). So even when I am a sucky new grad, give me a chance. I really do want to learn all those skills from you, and I hope you will have the patience to teach me what I wasn't able to learn in school.

I didn't figure I would really NEED all this theory, but I have to play by their rules while I am in their game. And then when I graduate, and pass the NCLEX they have prepared me to pass, I get a whole new playing field with new rules. Be kind to me please when I get there is all I ask :kiss

Vsummer,

I wasn't trying to imply that I'm a nurse. I am a student nurse.......for now.

I was implying that, as you said, we are not prepared to be nurses. I don't really think the nursing theories are worth putting all this effort into when it is obvious we will not be able to use any of it in a pratical sense, like we would real pharmacology, pathophysiology, gross anatomy. For gawds sakes, I dissected a frigging cat! I have to find various IV sites from having seen them in a text, palpate an abdomen, lymph.......etc without ever actualy seeing those structures.

I just think it's despicable that we are servants to the academic nursing setting so we can get licensed and then start learning real nursing. We will be barely usful to anything other than deep contemplation of psychosocial variables with a smattering of psychomotor skills with barely a whisper of usful medical knowledge.

The program will get the money, we'll get the license..........................and we'll both try to forget we ever met.

....NP=I can diagnose and treat

A Nurse Practitioner is an advanced practicing RN. You need the experience of having worked in the nursing profession in a wide variety of clinical areas. Ask any RN that has worked in their area of expertise and they can rhyme off diagnosis and treatment options before the doctor. You really learn continuously on the job. The scope of practice is enormous. I'm sure there are a lot of experienced nurses out there that could be called NP's without taking any course. I became an NP by default I guess. I chose to do outpost nursing in the arctic...that means i work alone without any back-up, in areas so remote and isolated that anyone who hasn't been there could never comprehend...newspapers are 2 weeks behind... I have to rely on my common sense and the skills that i have acquired as a practising RN...and an NP HAS to be the social worker, the doctor, the hospice nurse, the veterinarian, the psychologist, the pharmacist, the drug and alcohol counselor, the grief counselor, the funeral home director,the midwife, the lab tech,the x-ray tech,to name a few...you are working and on-call 24/7...you need to have compassion and understanding..you are working with diverse cultures and languages which you need to respect...working in downtown hospitals in Toronto helped to prepare me. If you want to get away without all the "emotional" stuff that goes with nursing and NP, go to medical school. Sure, they have doctor's offices in the south (southern Canada) where NP's do all the pre-natal,post-natal patient care for doctor's, make good money, work 9-5 monday to friday, but there are also RN's doing the same job. Education lays the groundwork for you to get out there and practise your profession. Experience is the great equalizer. :roll :nurse:

Originally posted by Peeps Mcarthur

Vsummer,

I wasn't trying to imply that I'm a nurse. I am a student nurse.......for now.

I was implying that, as you said, we are not prepared to be nurses. I don't really think the nursing theories are worth putting all this effort into when it is obvious we will not be able to use any of it in a pratical sense, like we would real pharmacology, pathophysiology, gross anatomy. For gawds sakes, I dissected a frigging cat! I have to find various IV sites from having seen them in a text, palpate an abdomen, lymph.......etc without ever actualy seeing those structures.

I just think it's despicable that we are servants to the academic nursing setting so we can get licensed and then start learning real nursing. We will be barely usful to anything other than deep contemplation of psychosocial variables with a smattering of psychomotor skills with barely a whisper of usful medical knowledge.

The program will get the money, we'll get the license..........................and we'll both try to forget we ever met.

OMG you sound as happy about your nursing program as I am about mine! When I was submitting my application, I asked about pharmacology. They said, oh you will learn pharmacology in the program. I question this, since I had a pharm class years ago (as a requirement for a different RN program) and they haven't taught any of it in the program I am in now. They have in the syllabus that we are to know the drugs and give us the drug names, but NOTHING else - we self teach pharmacology??!!

If they would get rid of their obsession with Orem I would be much happier. I hate D. Orem and wonder how in the world she ever found that much time to write the drivel they are pouring down my throat. FOR NOTHING!

They do teach the systems well... and I am getting 12 hours per week with patients. In a LTC. Hey, at least I can say I learned bed making 101.

say how much my program emphasizes theory. HOWEVER, I cannot help but recognize how much more I would benefit were I able to take more phsiology and pharmacology classes as opposed to drivel like Ed Psych. and Sociology. The damXXX thing is that if these Ph'd nurses REALLY wanted to improve the pay and respect accorded to RN's then they would push for MORE hard core science classes such as Organic Chemistry, and Pathophysiology. Requiring more hard science classes and less theory would further reduce the supply of nurses, and further push the equilibrium of supply and demand more in favor of the profession.

That's the thing about extreme liberals, they never figure it out! Just look at the Democrats picking Nancy Pelosi for their speaker, and Al Gore now embracing a single payer system. You can't convince me that even ONE of these theorists has ever voted for a Republican. As a lot they make the CNN news room seem like Rush Limbaugh by comparison.

Sorry, but I don't buy in to the whole nursing theory being a sham thing. Yes they have to grow and be improved upon, but these were people who changed what nursing is. The choise is yours as to what kind of nurse you want to be. If you want to ignore the big scheme of things and see nursing as a series of tasks, you certainly won't be the only one. Stay out of the degree programs, you will find diploma studies much more to your liking.

Specializes in LDRP; Education.

Wow Adrie - good post, and I agree!

I myself have been disenchanted with the theories that are OUT there, but alot of them were written for the times, and yes, most of them revolutionized nursing. While we can argue that some theories aren't practical, the *idea* of theory for nursing is paramount for our profession. A lot of what we have been studying in my program is the theory-practice gap; I hope to narrow this as I continue in this profession.

I agree, theory needs to constantly be improved in such a dynamic environment as nursing, but it's relevance to our profession we can't ignore.

By Adrienurse

If you want to ignore the big scheme of things and see nursing as a series of tasks, you certainly won't be the only one.

And just what is a nursing diagnosis, if not a series of tasks?

The formation of psychosocial assessment is in fact a complicated series of tasks that are convieniently diferrent for everybody.

Neither one of those functions are readily used in the real world because a hospital exists to treat pathophysiological responses to disease and nurses are the pillars that hold it together.

At the root of the problem are academics that think they need something unique and separate from that real world for some reason.

Someone that I know very well treated a patient this past week by knowing and anticipating the physioligical changes, signs, symptoms. There were no lengthy nursing theories helping him along, since he has never understood them, poor uneducated person that he is. The patients oral mucosa was red and swollen. There was difficulty swallowing (likely pain) but the patient was not capable of communicating that. The patient was on oxygen with no humidity. The patient had pneumonia so administering oral medications, especially the psyllium, with water was not nearly as effective as orange juice...........why? Was it the psychosocial assessment or some grand nursing theory? No, he'll not win a pulitzer prize, Orange juice is a mucolytic, but he had to know the real pathology and the mechanical dysfunction in order to use this knowledge.

The patient produced the sputum that was blocking thier airway and facilitating more growth by creating a nice moist dark nest for the pneumonia. With the increase in ventillation the patient could now swallow without difficulty and feed herself, and shocked the staff when he got her to the bathroom. More ventillation from ambulation= more sputum production=patient sitting up by end of shift speaking to him asking if he'll be her doctor tommorow.......cute LOL.

No, he won't, but I guess he won't be a nurse either because he just can't utilize those wonderful, complicated, theories.

Just wanted to add that there are those "degree program thinkers" that would have treated her "dimentia" and psychosocial dysfunctionality, in fact it was suggested that was a factor in her treatment course and that he wasn't expected to do much besides clean her up and try to get her to swallow something for two days.

If he gets counted among the diploma nurses for using medical ideas to treat patients, then maybe that is the more honorable road.

perspective would stick to diploma programs! No such luck. I'm a 4.0 student and I instead intend to persuade others of the lack of a logical basis for most of these theories. Were I to offer a "theory" of nursing (and perhaps I will one day, wouldn't that be a hoot) it would be that nurses act as the primary individuals with regard to IMPLEMENTING patient care. This also entails a plethora of actions including but not limited to coordination of diverse medical protocals and medical input directed BACK towards doctors (hopefully where it is intelligently acted upon). In addition, nurses can be seen as a "check and balance" within the medical system. Thus, if the doctor makes an incorrect diagnosis or calls for the wrong medication, it is our job to take notice and if necessary intervene.

The REALITY of nursing is indeed much more grand than most of these theories would even dare to dream. Best of all it is empirically based, and can be supported with copious statistics.

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I need to further explain myself, it would appear. Okay, I sounded like an eletist snob in my last post, I admit. Wasn''t my intention to start a degree vs diploma debate (been there done that). Just wanted to point out that if you don't have your heart in it, you may be doing yourself a disservice by studying in a theory driven program. It was not so long ago that I was an undergrad student, and I thought most of it was a pile of shyte as well. An overloaded student does not take kindly to having a whole lot of stuff that they fail to see as significant shoved down his/her throat.

I'm just coming at this from the point of viesw of the semi-experienced RN currently revisiting the world of nursing education. It is unfortunate that you see nursing diagnoses and your assessment skills as being useless. Hopefully with time you will appreciate what you have learned. Yes, you will be required to modify your skills in order to do individual assessments that is what being a practitioner vs. a machine is all about. Not all nursing jobs are about carrying out the direct orders of the MD. I happen to have quite a lot of autonomy in my present job and the MD is just someone we consult.

By my comments on those who see nursing as a series of tasks, this is the danger of just going through the motions of providing the required care without putting thought to the general outcome. I work with a lot of nurses who do this and it annoys the hell out of me, because it adds to my own workload. This is the difference between being a professional and being a drone.

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