Nursing and Religion

Stargazer · Feb 17, 2003

After working with approximately 100 different nurses over a 12-year period dealing with life-and death situations daily in critical care units, I can honestly say the subject of religion came up exactly once in all that time, and it was initiated by a Wiccan who told me she sometimes said protection spells (? sorry if that's the wrong terminology) for her sicker patients.

As a lapsed Catholic-verging-on-agnostic ICU nurse, I don't ever recall thinking about religion when it came to caring for my patients. I did what I could to keep them stable or healthy, and when I couldn't, I did what I could to alleviate their suffering. I gave patients and families choices, respect, and dignity. In other words, I cared for them more from a holistic model rather than a religious one.

As far as death and dying is concerned--as I said, I headed it off where I could. When I couldn't, I tried to make my patients comfortable and make their death as positive an experience as I could, letting them have as much control as feasible, offering them privacy and time with their loved ones. Working in a big-city teaching hospital and seeing technology often abused to keep patients alive no matter what in order to keep patients alive another day, or another hour, I saw very clearly that death is not always the worst thing that can happen to someone.

I think everyone tends to see things through filters based on their beliefs and experiences. If you are a religious person, you will see everything through that filter. If you are a very political person, you tend to see things through that filter. I think that the vast majority of nurses see and treat patients holistically regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof, and therefore you're not probably going to be able to tell who is religious and who's not based on the care they give.

And yes, implying that the topic of conversation was over Sunny's head was rude and insulting, not to mention entirely inaccurate.

Rootbear76 · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
That quote about the question" being over one's head", directed at Sunnygirl, I believe, is VERY pompous and a huge reason I have walked away from conventional religion in my search for spirituality. It was VERY presumpuous and arrogant.

I am out of here as this thread will be way too hot to handle soon enough. Wonder why we cannot entertain other ideas and points of view w/o resorting to insults? Are debating skills THAT weak in some people?

I feel that her response was pompous and yours too. You can't blame that on religion. Like I said, I just asked a simple question. I was not implying aethists or agnostics don't care, I asked how do you religious, aethists, or agnostics handle death. Also, if you are looking to people as a basis for not looking at God you will always be disappointed. I'm sure there's an aethist or agnostic somewhere, that has done or said something you don't like.

CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE QUESTION I ASKED, HOW DO YOU COPE WITH DEATH AND SICKNESS, AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON, AGNOSTIC, OR AETHIST .....sheeesh!

LasVegasRN · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by Stargazer
...And yes, implying that the topic of conversation was over Sunny's head was rude and insulting, not to mention entirely inaccurate.

Well said.

Perhaps your faith will help guide you in how to act more mature.

CCL"Babe", BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2003

Personally, I don't know how anyone in the human medical field can be an atheist or agnostic.......we are truly "fearfully and wonderfully made". I've learned such an appreciation of the way God wired our bodies together in the years I've been in nursing, and I think it's miraculous that more things DON'T go wrong with us. I'm not particularly churchgoing---as a lapsed Catholic, I consider myself more "spiritual" than conventionally religious---but whenever I witness a death or see a new life come into the world, I'm once again in awe of God and all His creations. I also have no problem praying with patients if that is what comforts them, or joining in ceremonies at the bedside when asked to by the patient, family or minister. It doesn't matter what my comfort level is; I'm there to help the patient and yes, to serve God as well.

I could not say it better if I tried.

As far as using faith to deal with grief, I've tried learn to give it up to God (or a higher power - what ever ) along time ago. Unfortunately this isn't always enough.

I had to leave pre-hospital nursing because I just could not pull another dead 16 year old out of a car. I could not deal with the daily horrors in the ER either. I found myself too angry all the time. I found that I could not get far away enough, fast enough from the hospital. There were some other factors as well.

So I guess in order to cope I had to step back, try something new.

Rootbear76 · Feb 17, 2003

Sunnygirl, I will apologize if what I said offended you. I was just wondering how people from different or any or no religions handle death and sickness as nurses on a daily basis. That's all. I wasn't implying no one cared I never said that. I was just curious that's all.

CCL"Babe", BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2003

And yes, implying that the topic of conversation was over Sunny's head was rude and insulting, not to mention entirely inaccurate.

There were a few posts while I was composing my answer.

I have to agree that we need more tolerance. A good honest debate is a wonderful thing, without insults. There is already way too much anger in this world.

Perhaps your faith will help guide you in how to act more mature

Rootbear76 · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by LasVegasRN
Well said.

Perhaps your faith will help guide you in how to act more mature.

Yes my faith does help me to admit when I am wrong. Perhaps, it was just a misunderstanding on my part.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by Just_wondering
I feel that her response was pompous and yours too. You can't blame that on religion. Like I said, I just asked a simple question. I was not implying aethists or agnostics don't care, I asked how do you religious, aethists, or agnostics handle death. Also, if you are looking to people as a basis for not looking at God you will always be disappointed. I'm sure there's an aethist or agnostic somewhere, that has done or said something you don't like.

CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE QUESTION I ASKED, HOW DO YOU COPE WITH DEATH AND SICKNESS, AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON, AGNOSTIC, OR AETHIST .....sheeesh!

SHAME ON ME, I cannot walk away on this note, so here goes:

I believe told you how I cope and my skills guide me well..in fact, since walking away from "church" I have sought other spiritual thoughts/feelings which has helped me cope with suffering, death and loss MUCH better than what I was taught in church. MUCH better. I feel much more at peace with my own pending death and the loss of others, even in cases where the death seems to make no sense such as in infant/fetal losses. I was not being pompous, you were. But that can be debated on and on......like I said, it's why I walked away from Church, but not from GOD. (you really assume a lot in your posts).

Can you see the difference in RELIGION (for its own sake) and SPIRITUALITY? If so, then my post makes perfect sense to you and needs no further argument FROM you. I know of many atheists and agnostics (personally and have read works written by some)------ and many believe death is not an event really, but traversing to another plane, or phase of life, if you will. Life on Earth brief, soul everlasting in many forms. It brings many around the world GREAT peace to believe in this way, as it does me. I embrace these beliefs and they guide me VERY well in practice, but more importantly in life, where I explain death to my kids in this very same way.

The Heaven/Hell concepts/beliefs imparted on my by my church and parents (as they presented them anyhow), did NOTHING to bring me comfort when thinking about and coping with death. I knew only fear ----til I sought other points of view/beliefs concerning dying and death. I don't believe ANY God wishes us to live in fear or w/o spirituality, but also dont' necessarily believe the way the CHURCH taught me either.

Also one last appeal: Please don't attempt to tell others how to answer or what to believe......your "Non-faithful need not apply" attitude really turns many off (including me as you can see), and you need to be open to ALL kinds of ideas if youwant to have a really DECENT exchange here. Open your mind a little, you may just LEARN something even it is not what you want to hear. (gasp)..... :eek:

LasVegasRN · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes
...Please don't attempt to tell others how to answer or what to believe......your "Non-faithful need not apply" attitude really turns many off (including me as you can see), and you need to be open to ALL kinds of ideas if youwant to have a really DECENT exchange here. Open your mind a little, you may just LEARN something even it is not what you want to hear. (gasp).....

Well said.

The way you worded your opening question could have very easily been interpreted as "How do you people who don't profess to believe in God cope with death and extreme sickness as a nurse because by golly MY FAITH helped me TREMENDOUSLY - I can't possibly understand how the lack of it could help you as a nurse".

It just helps to remember that when you are discussing something as deeply personal as religion and spirituality on an open forum with all different types of members you must exercise diplomacy and tact.

For some excellent discussions on this very subject that might also help in answering the question you posed, do a search on "Religion" and "Prayer". This topic has been discussed many many times.

Rootbear76 · Feb 17, 2003

Originally posted by SmilingBluEyes

That quote about the question" being over one's head", directed at Sunnygirl, I believe, is VERY pompous and a huge reason I have walked away from conventional religion in my search for spirituality. It was VERY presumpuous and arrogant.

I am out of here as this thread will be way too hot to handle soon enough. Wonder why we cannot entertain other ideas and points of view w/o resorting to insults? Are debating skills THAT weak in some people?

**************

You say I assume alot in my posts, well you said that's why you walked away from conventional religion in search of spiritually, so I guess you ASSUME I'm into conventional religion, you are wrong.

As I stated this was probably a big misunderstanding. I am a Christian, and yes I have used it to help me, and yes I was wondering how OTHER people involved in religion or not involved in religion handled death and sickness in this profession. I don't think I EVER implied anything about aethists or agnostics NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE DEATH. I ASKED ALL EQUALLY RELIGIOUS AND NON-RELIGIOUS HOW DO YOU HANDLE DEATH.

Rootbear76 · Feb 17, 2003

Honestly, if I would've known that this thread was going to go this route I would've never posted. The reason I even asked this question was because I just got finished reading Echo Heron's book Intensive Care, and I just started her book Tending Lives. All I wanted to know was how religious or non religious people handled death and sickness everyday.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 17, 2003

Ok---- if you ask, they will come. I did not assume you were "conventional", just stated I walked away from it. I believe innate in many religions is pomposity and the belief that all others are "wrong". That really turned me off to it all. I don't know anything except you are CHRISTIAN.......anyhow.... BELIEVE Me, alot of NON-Chistians deal with death a far sight better then many CHRISTIANS I know. (and vice versa can be true, also). I Spent 9 in years in the Bible Belt, so I know what I am saying (why, it was even in your home state Oklahoma was where I lived and trained in nursing).

Good luck---hope you will be seeing some great and enlightening replies here, but if you bite their heads off the way you have thus far, don't expect too damn much, better to be diplomatic when and if you reply as Vegas suggested......