Nurses children and vaccinations, how do you feel? - page 9

I am on another forum that is very anti-vaccinations for children (or anyone for that matter), and it got me thinking how do nurses and other healthcare workers feel about vaccinations and... Read More

  1. by   Jolie
    Gompers, you are absolutely right!

    And Almabella, you are doing the right thing by protecting your wee one from exposure to colds and flu. I want to smack parents who take their newborns out to every school, church and social function, regardless of weather, road conditions, infectious diseases, etc., and then wonder why their baby is always sick and cranky.

    I'm equally annoyed by the old biddies who think it is their God-given right to touch a stranger's baby in the grocery store, and the parents who fail to reign in their kids and allow them to paw all over said newborn (usually in the pediatrician's office) with their grubby, filthy hands.

    OK. I'll step off my soapbox now.
  2. by   HM2VikingRN
    Its far worse to allow children to develop diseases with the potential of developing lifelong disability. I have stumbled across the links to "ethical" vaccines before. I question the motivations of the website authors on a number of levels. The cell lines cited were derived in the 60's for one thing. Second the overall social good has long since erased any queasiness. Third, it appears that the patients from whom the cells were derived did give informed consent.

    "I'd rather be a little bit sick than a whole lot dead" HMC Earl Marple. USN

    I realize this tends to be an issue that draws moral purists but I don't think that any of us can honestly say that every medial service, treatment, cosmetic or food has been completely and wholly developed without a single ethical lapse. The larger issue is to work to improve the ethical review processes of future research instead of beating up the past.
  3. by   HM2VikingRN
    potential harm from childhood diseases: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...op.htm#measles
    before measles immunization was available, nearly everyone in the u.s. got measles. an average of 450 measles-associated deaths were reported each year between 1953 and 1963.
    in the u.s., up to 20 percent of persons with measles are hospitalized. seventeen percent of measles cases have had one or more complications, such as ear infections, pneumonia, or diarrhea. pneumonia is present in about six percent of cases and accounts for most of the measles deaths. although less common, some persons with measles develop encephalitis (swelling of the lining of the brain), resulting in brain damage. eg deafness, retardation, etc.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...stop.htm#mumps
    before the mumps vaccine was introduced, mumps was a major cause of deafness in children, occurring in approximately 1 in 20,000 reported cases.mumps is usually a mild viral disease. however, rare conditions such as swelling of the brain, nerves and spinal cord can lead to serious side effects such as paralysis, seizures, and fluid in the brain.
    serious side effects of mumps are more common among adults than children. swelling of the testes is the most common side effect in males past the age of puberty, occurring in up to 20 percent to 50 percent of men who contract mumps. an increase in miscarriages has been found among women who develop mumps during the first trimester of pregnancy.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...stop.htm#polio
    polio virus causes acute paralysis that can lead to permanent physical disability and even death. before polio vaccine was available, 13,000 to 20,000 cases of paralytic polio were reported each year in the united states. these annual epidemics of polio often left thousands of victims--mostly children--in braces, crutches, wheelchairs, and iron lungs. the effects were life-long.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/...stop.htm#polio
    before hib vaccine became available, hib was the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in u.s. infants and children. before the vaccine was developed, there were approximately 20,000 invasive hib cases annually. approximately two-thirds of the 20,000 cases were meningitis, and one-third were other life-threatening invasive hib diseases such as bacteria in the blood, pneumonia, or inflammation of the epiglottis. about one of every 200 u.s. children under 5 years of age got an invasive hib disease. hib meningitis once killed 600 children each year and left many survivors with deafness, seizures, or mental retardation.

    pertussis can be a severe illness, resulting in prolonged coughing spells that can last for many weeks. these spells can make it difficult for a child to eat, drink, and breathe. because vomiting often occurs after a coughing spell, infants may lose weight and become dehydrated. in infants, it can also cause pneumonia and lead to brain damage, seizures, and mental retardation.

    while rubella is usually mild in children and adults, up to 90 percent of infants born to mothers infected with rubella during the first trimester of pregnancy will develop congenital rubella syndrome (crs), resulting in heart defects, cataracts, mental retardation, and deafness.

    in 1964-1965, before rubella immunization was used routinely in the u.s., there was an epidemic of rubella that resulted in an estimated 20,000 infants born with crs, with 2,100 neonatal deaths and 11,250 miscarriages. of the 20,000 infants born with crs, 11,600 were deaf, 3,580 were blind, and 1,800 were mentally retarded.

    more than 2 billion persons worldwide have been infected with the hepatitis b virus at some time in their lives. of these, 350 million are life-long carriers of the disease and can transmit the virus to others. one million of these people die each year from liver disease and liver cancer.
    approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis b virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

    diphtheria is a serious disease caused by a bacteria. this germ produces a poisonous substance or toxin which frequently causes heart and nerve problems. the death rate is 5 percent to 10 percent, with higher death rates (up to 20 percent) in the very young and the elderly.
    in the 1920's, diphtheria was a major cause of illness and death for children in the u.s. in 1921, a total of 206,000 cases and 15,520 deaths were reported. with vaccine development in 1923, new cases of diphtheria began to fall in the u.s., until in 2001 only two cases were reported.

    worldwide, tetanus in newborn infants continues to be a huge problem. every year tetanus kills 300,000 newborns and 30,000 birth mothers who were not properly vaccinated. even though the number of reported cases is low, an increased number of tetanus cases in younger persons has been observed recently in the u.s. among intravenous drug users, particularly heroin users.

    this is why i believe in vaccination. protect kids against the real proven risks. it could just be that kids who are survivng today because they are not dying from preventable diseases have an increased genetic susceptibility to autism and some of the autoimmune diseases which they are now living to an age where genetic triggers are activated. i think that a lot of these disorders are environmentally caused by pollution or lifestyle issues.
  4. by   HM2VikingRN
    Quote from middlekane
    My daughters will be. Even if she doesn't have sex until she is married, her husband may have and he can infect her. You can get the strains of HPV that cause cancer at any time and I want her to be safe.
    I am encouraging my daughters to get the vaccine.

    I do think that parents can ask to limit the number of vaccines given at one time to 4 if they are more comfortable with that. I can remember giving 6 vaccines at a shot to reservists and I always thought it made more sense to give vaccines as a series instead of a mass bombardment.
  5. by   HM2VikingRN
    HPV is linked to the process of turning cells "immortal" which leads to the cancer process. So vaccination against HPV is preventive by definition against the cancer process.
  6. by   Agnus
    The parents with concerns have a valid concern. There are indeed problems with vaccines. We in the healthcare fields know this.

    Having said that I am very pro vaccine. Research has show us that for the vast majority of people and children the benefits of many vaccines far out weight the risks.

    Not everyone should receive every vaccine that is out there. In fact we do not all receive every vaccine. There are some that are reserved for only certain class of people such as travelers to certain countries etc.

    There are a few people and children who have had bad things happen as a result of a particular vaccine. These people should be in the future careful about any vaccine and parents have good reason to be concerned about the siblings of any child with a bad reaction or result receivening the same vaccine.

    One must keep in mind that the percentages of those who actually have a bad experience with the most common vaccines are very very low. Yet we should not ignore it nor ignore the concerns of parents (missinforomed or otherwise).


    We need to keep in mind that in the USA at least that vaccination is so prevalent and common that we do not have to worry execssively about a few who may adamently refuse. Thier likely hood of catching the disease is lessened by the fact that most of us are vacinnated and will not pass the disease to them.

    My sister's child got small pox from the vaccine. Her doctor then refused to vaccinate her subsequent children. It was quite a number of years later that they discontinued giving that vaccine based on the fact that the only receint cases of small pox were from the vaccine it self.

    We do know in a small number of cases there are other ill effects from different common vaccines. We also know this to be true with less common vaccines (such as those reserved for travelers) That is why every vaccine is not offered or even recomended to everyone. The benefit must out weigh the risks. If that were not the case there would be little reason not to vaccineate everyone with every vaccine that exists.

    a vaccine is a drug we know there is no such thing as a benign drug.
  7. by   hollyvk
    Quote from middlekane
    My daughters will be. Even if she doesn't have sex until she is married, her husband may have and he can infect her. You can get the strains of HPV that cause cancer at any time and I want her to be safe.
    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) today released their review and recommendations for cervical cancer and the new HPV vaccine: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...d=rr56e312a1_e

    (Continuing nursing ed credits available later this month on this article).

    HollyVK
  8. by   CEG
    Quote from Gompers
    Not according to the CDC...

    http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/conce...vailfree.htm#1


    It seems that the only vaccines that still contain mercury (thimerosal) are some flu vaccines (though you can get preservative-free if you look for it) and some tetanus-diphtheria boosters for kids over the age of seven.

    Now, fine, there is a chance that there is 0.0002% of mercury left in the vaccines given to our babies and toddlers. Does the anti-vaccine community really believe that this possible 0.0002% is actually continuing to cause problems like allergies and autism? I think we need to start looking elsewhere in our community for the triggers for these things. A lot more things have changed since the rise in autism besides the increase in childhood vaccines. When I was a kid, we didn't have antibacterial soaps and household cleaners, microwaves, cordless or cellular phones, etc. We also grew up getting TONS of fresh air (even in the winter) and eating a lot of fresh food instead of all the fast food and preservative-laden snacks that kids eat today.

    I'm not going to risk my daughter's health because there is a chance of her being exposed to a possible 0.0002% of mercury in the vaccines she got last week at her 2-month check-up.

    Honestly, I'm risking her life and health more by simply strapping her into the carseat, driving on these crazy streets, and taking her to the pediatrician's office where tons of sick kids are sneezing on the magazines in the waiting room...
    Keep in mind that while companies are no longer producing many vaccines with thimerosol, the shelf like of vaccines is very long and most being currently given still contain it. Also, Hep B vaccine contains thimerosol (per CDC website reference above).

    I find it strange that those willing to inject their children with known harmful substances because it's what everyone does are considered informed while those who research and make their own decision are considered ignorant. I'm not saying that those who vax aren't informed, just that I believe the majority of people who do vax have done absolutely no research.

    My decision not to vaccinate my son is based on my son's health problems. My decision to vaccinate my daughter stemmed from the fact that she has no health problems. My son will be vaxed accordingly before he goes to school- assuming his health problems are resolved. I believe that is when my responsibility to public health is strong enough to make that decision.

    ITA about crazy drivers, I was never so nervous as bringing my first child home from the hospital. It's like they can't even see my "Baby on Board" sign
  9. by   Gompers
    Quote from CEG
    Keep in mind that while companies are no longer producing many vaccines with thimerosol, the shelf like of vaccines is very long and most being currently given still contain it. Also, Hep B vaccine contains thimerosol (per CDC website reference above).

    If a clinic or doctor's office has "old stock" then yes, there might still be thimerosol in the vaccines. But all you have to do is ask around - I did and my pediatrician (who has a baby of his own) assured me that his office has completely switched over to the thimerosol-free vaccines. And the link I provided also mentions the Hepatitis B vax - there is a preservative-free version for infants and children. As a NICU nurse, I can tell you that we've been giving this for several years and the label is highlighted in bright orange to signify that it is indeed the infant and children's preservative-free type.
  10. by   CEG
    Quote from Gompers
    If a clinic or doctor's office has "old stock" then yes, there might still be thimerosol in the vaccines. But all you have to do is ask around - I did and my pediatrician (who has a baby of his own) assured me that his office has completely switched over to the thimerosol-free vaccines. And the link I provided also mentions the Hepatitis B vax - there is a preservative-free version for infants and children. As a NICU nurse, I can tell you that we've been giving this for several years and the label is highlighted in bright orange to signify that it is indeed the infant and children's preservative-free type.
    That's good for most who are concerned, at least. Unfortunately in our Military Treatment Facility they have the old kind and do not order the thimerosol-free only because the parents request it.
  11. by   judyblueeyes
    That supposed "old stock" is certainly long "out of date" by now. You doc certainly should not be giving out of date vac's.

    Like most parents who are honest about it, my son's autism was apparant shortly if not immediately after birth and had nothing to do with his 12-18 month vac's.
  12. by   JaneyW
    Quote from judyblueeyes
    That supposed "old stock" is certainly long "out of date" by now. You doc certainly should not be giving out of date vac's.

    Like most parents who are honest about it, my son's autism was apparant shortly if not immediately after birth and had nothing to do with his 12-18 month vac's.
    I have also heard my friends who have an autistic child that they noticed something not quite right from the beginning--certainly before they were a year old. Then I've also heard of other children starting out normally and then things changing either suddenly or gradually over time during the preschool years. It is puzzling, and I can certainly see why people are confused. Especially when there are few answers.
  13. by   rph3664
    Quote from GardenDove
    Wow, you sound like my kind of weirdo! Call us eccentric, it sounds more dignified! Free and independent thinkers.

    P-RN I've never heard of colleges asking about vaccinations. My 4 grown sons have had no problems, two are presently in college. My oldest was briefly in the Navy and thus was vaccinated against everything under the sun, of course.
    I went to the University of Iowa, and at that time (early 1990s), they did require proof of measles immunity. I don't remember about anything else.

    At Christmas, my dad asked me about "Evidence of Harm", that book that says vaccines cause autism, and I told him to get it from the library first. No, I haven't read it, but the people I have seen online who did were the colander-on-the-head types. Google "MMR conspiracy" and be prepared to get an eyeful.

    If nothing else, people MUST be immunized against tetanus because it is ubiquitous in soil bacteria and the disease is 100% preventable.

close