Nurses children and vaccinations, how do you feel?

[Mistify]

I am on another forum that is very anti-vaccinations for children (or anyone for that matter), and it got me thinking how do nurses and other healthcare workers feel about vaccinations and anti-vaxer's. Most of the posters on that forum are very hostile to anyone in healthcare and no matter what a healthcare worker posts it is always wrong or they are spying for "The Man". They tend to see healthcare workers as uninformed, uneducated, and uncaring. How do you feel about vaccinations for yourself or children? Do you ever have people that are very anti-vaccination and what reasons do they give? And do you think that most people that decline vaccination are informed about or understand the effects of the route they are taking? I am not trying to judge, I am just very curious.

[KellNY, RN]

Personally, the aborted cells don't bother me on a moral level (I have no problems with abortion), but they certainly throw in an additional ICK factor. Biologically speaking, I don't like other human--or animal--cells injected into my children or myself.

So, yes, it's a very "valid statement".

[CEG]

I am a bit "soggy" too. We selectively/delay vax. I also had a hospital birth. I am very into the AP part, but the NFL parts I am pretty challanged. Its nice to see you over here, too! Its does get me pretty mad sometimes over there, all of the threads about the horrible incompetent doctors and nurses.

Hi I am a MDC'er too!! I mainly lurk, but occasionally jump in. It's amazing the difference in attitude there, vs here, vs a mainstream birth board.

[NicoleRN07, RN]

My child gets the needed vaccines.

[TrudyRN]

There were no vaccines for what used to be known as UCHD usual childhood diseases. Measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox. Just about every kid got these, often all at once or in very close order in families, making Mom nuts having to care for all those sick kids at home at once, LOL.

No one I know suffered complications of these illnesses. That, of course, does not mean for a minute that other people didn't.

I personally think, having been a public health nurse and seeing how these poor little babies are just attacked by needle after needle, practically from the moment they're born, that vaccinating has gone way overboard. And this latest push to get the HPV vax into our young dtrs is outrageous, a thinly veiled attempt to make $$$ for the manufacturer.

I think the flu vaccines are experiments, I think vaccines do cause some terribly serious after-effects. I think kids are given too many too young. Plus, I have seen where kids whose moms don't have proof of their vaccination status are vaccinated over and over and over (like illegals who were probably vaccinated in their home land, only to come across the border and now have to get vaccinated again because the coyote didn't tell Mom to bring the vax records with her when she stole out of Mexico or points south). It costs the US a bundle to vax and revax these kids but that's another topic.

I think we have to be cautious with any medication. I think there are some evil people in this world who are doing everything they can think of to make money and they don't care who they hurt in the process. Also, they are trying to subjugate us and control us, taking away our Constitutional Rights and dumbing us down via our public schools, TV, genetically altering our food, polluting our air, water, soil, and interfering with our health care are excellent for that purpose. Why should vaccines be exempt from being a method of subjugation of the population?

Google Joyce Reilly, I think is her name.

[analee23]

I was vaccinated as a child and will vaccinate my children. I do not believe vaccines cause Autism. But I will continue to not judge as parents tell me their children are not vaccinated. I simply state, it's just to help the doctor's try and figure out what is wrong with your baby.

I work in a pediatric ER and will vaccinate my children due to the horrendous illnesses I have seen from not vaccinating. This includes a raging case of meningitis in a little 6 month old boy. Mom said she was talking to a friend and decided not to immunize this child, even though she had vaccinated her other children, due to risk of autism... then her baby got incredibly ill ended up with petechiae and a very high fever and rushed to PICU. She said she would vaccinate from now on.

I've seen pertussis that went through the whole family... baby got sick and had to be admitted, the rest of the family made it through OK.

I have friends who were born in 3rd world countries and contracted polio and are now wheelchair-bound.

I would never EVER want my children to go through such horrendous diseases that are so easily prevented. (I guess my point of view is slightly skewed too as my dad's a pediatrician and would give us the vaccines at home often times.)

I do agree with waiting with the Chickenpox vaccine. I contracted chicken pox as a child as many of us did and did just fine. My youngest brother got the vaccine at 14 as his titers were negative (he had never been sick with it)

I have mixed feelings on the HPV vaccine. My husband and I were both virgins when we got married, so I see no need in getting it myself. But, if states are going to mandate vaccination, why not make the boys get it too? I mean even though you can't test for it in males, they do spread it just as females do! So why the heck not??? Just my

Analee

[Gompers, BSN, RN]

if a piece of cheese causes a strong immune reaction from him then what will injecting monkey cells or mercury (still in vaccines btw for those who think it isn't) do to his system?

not according to the cdc...

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-availfree.htm#1

it seems that the only vaccines that still contain mercury (thimerosal) are some flu vaccines (though you can get preservative-free if you look for it) and some tetorifice-diphtheria boosters for kids over the age of seven.

now, fine, there is a chance that there is 0.0002% of mercury left in the vaccines given to our babies and toddlers. does the anti-vaccine community really believe that this possible 0.0002% is actually continuing to cause problems like allergies and autism? i think we need to start looking elsewhere in our community for the triggers for these things. a lot more things have changed since the rise in autism besides the increase in childhood vaccines. when i was a kid, we didn't have antibacterial soaps and household cleaners, microwaves, cordless or cellular phones, etc. we also grew up getting tons of fresh air (even in the winter) and eating a lot of fresh food instead of all the fast food and preservative-laden snacks that kids eat today.

i'm not going to risk my daughter's health because there is a chance of her being exposed to a possible 0.0002% of mercury in the vaccines she got last week at her 2-month check-up.

honestly, i'm risking her life and health more by simply strapping her into the corificeat, driving on these crazy streets, and taking her to the pediatrician's office where tons of sick kids are sneezing on the magazines in the waiting room...

[trellimana]

I'm an MDC mama too! And a selective/delayed vaxer. Still just a student nurse but thought I'd throw my .02 in. I'm in agreement with some others here that the basic premise of vaxing is sound, but I'm worried about the fact that no one has bothered to study what the body's response is to getting so many vaxes at the same time, especially on babies so young. We just went for a 2mo check up for my youngest, and they wanted to give him pneumococcal, dtap, hep b (didn't have at birth), ipv, hib... Seems like a major onslaught to an immature immune system. So we delay, and get them selectively one at a time.

[Almabella]

Not according to the CDC...

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-availfree.htm#1

It seems that the only vaccines that still contain mercury (thimerosal) are some flu vaccines (though you can get preservative-free if you look for it) and some tetorifice-diphtheria boosters for kids over the age of seven.

Now, fine, there is a chance that there is 0.0002% of mercury left in the vaccines given to our babies and toddlers. Does the anti-vaccine community really believe that this possible 0.0002% is actually continuing to cause problems like allergies and autism? I think we need to start looking elsewhere in our community for the triggers for these things. A lot more things have changed since the rise in autism besides the increase in childhood vaccines. When I was a kid, we didn't have antibacterial soaps and household cleaners, microwaves, cordless or cellular phones, etc. We also grew up getting TONS of fresh air (even in the winter) and eating a lot of fresh food instead of all the fast food and preservative-laden snacks that kids eat today.

I'm not going to risk my daughter's health because there is a chance of her being exposed to a possible 0.0002% of mercury in the vaccines she got last week at her 2-month check-up.

Honestly, I'm risking her life and health more by simply strapping her into the corificeat, driving on these crazy streets, and taking her to the pedatrician's office where tons of sick kids are sneezing on the magazines in the waiting room...

:roll This last comment really made me laugh!

I have a 10 week old, and truthfully, that's exactly how I feel. I'm afraid to take him anywhere d/t the current horrific flu season here in Minnesota. So, basically I'm stuck in the house.

I agree about the mercury levels too (in fact, posted pretty much the same thing earlier in the thread).

[Jolie, BSN]

Gompers, you are absolutely right!

And Almabella, you are doing the right thing by protecting your wee one from exposure to colds and flu. I want to smack parents who take their newborns out to every school, church and social function, regardless of weather, road conditions, infectious diseases, etc., and then wonder why their baby is always sick and cranky.

I'm equally annoyed by the old biddies who think it is their God-given right to touch a stranger's baby in the grocery store, and the parents who fail to reign in their kids and allow them to paw all over said newborn (usually in the pediatrician's office) with their grubby, filthy hands.

OK. I'll step off my soapbox now.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

http://www.cogforlife.org/fetalvaccines.htm

More info on how these fetal cell lines were procured

Its far worse to allow children to develop diseases with the potential of developing lifelong disability. I have stumbled across the links to "ethical" vaccines before. I question the motivations of the website authors on a number of levels. The cell lines cited were derived in the 60's for one thing. Second the overall social good has long since erased any queasiness. Third, it appears that the patients from whom the cells were derived did give informed consent.

"I'd rather be a little bit sick than a whole lot dead" HMC Earl Marple. USN

I realize this tends to be an issue that draws moral purists but I don't think that any of us can honestly say that every medial service, treatment, cosmetic or food has been completely and wholly developed without a single ethical lapse. The larger issue is to work to improve the ethical review processes of future research instead of beating up the past.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

potential harm from childhood diseases: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/whatifstop.htm#measles

before measles immunization was available, nearly everyone in the u.s. got measles. an average of 450 measles-associated deaths were reported each year between 1953 and 1963.

in the u.s., up to 20 percent of persons with measles are hospitalized. seventeen percent of measles cases have had one or more complications, such as ear infections, pneumonia, or diarrhea. pneumonia is present in about six percent of cases and accounts for most of the measles deaths. although less common, some persons with measles develop encephalitis (swelling of the lining of the brain), resulting in brain damage. eg deafness, retardation, etc.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/whatifstop.htm#mumps

before the mumps vaccine was introduced, mumps was a major cause of deafness in children, occurring in approximately 1 in 20,000 reported cases.mumps is usually a mild viral disease. however, rare conditions such as swelling of the brain, nerves and spinal cord can lead to serious side effects such as paralysis, seizures, and fluid in the brain.

serious side effects of mumps are more common among adults than children. swelling of the testes is the most common side effect in males past the age of puberty, occurring in up to 20 percent to 50 percent of men who contract mumps. an increase in miscarriages has been found among women who develop mumps during the first trimester of pregnancy.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/whatifstop.htm#polio

polio virus causes acute paralysis that can lead to permanent physical disability and even death. before polio vaccine was available, 13,000 to 20,000 cases of paralytic polio were reported each year in the united states. these annual epidemics of polio often left thousands of victims--mostly children--in braces, crutches, wheelchairs, and iron lungs. the effects were life-long.

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/whatifstop.htm#polio

before hib vaccine became available, hib was the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in u.s. infants and children. before the vaccine was developed, there were approximately 20,000 invasive hib cases annually. approximately two-thirds of the 20,000 cases were meningitis, and one-third were other life-threatening invasive hib diseases such as bacteria in the blood, pneumonia, or inflammation of the epiglottis. about one of every 200 u.s. children under 5 years of age got an invasive hib disease. hib meningitis once killed 600 children each year and left many survivors with deafness, seizures, or mental retardation.

pertussis can be a severe illness, resulting in prolonged coughing spells that can last for many weeks. these spells can make it difficult for a child to eat, drink, and breathe. because vomiting often occurs after a coughing spell, infants may lose weight and become dehydrated. in infants, it can also cause pneumonia and lead to brain damage, seizures, and mental retardation.

while rubella is usually mild in children and adults, up to 90 percent of infants born to mothers infected with rubella during the first trimester of pregnancy will develop congenital rubella syndrome (crs), resulting in heart defects, cataracts, mental retardation, and deafness.

in 1964-1965, before rubella immunization was used routinely in the u.s., there was an epidemic of rubella that resulted in an estimated 20,000 infants born with crs, with 2,100 neonatal deaths and 11,250 miscarriages. of the 20,000 infants born with crs, 11,600 were deaf, 3,580 were blind, and 1,800 were mentally retarded.

more than 2 billion persons worldwide have been infected with the hepatitis b virus at some time in their lives. of these, 350 million are life-long carriers of the disease and can transmit the virus to others. one million of these people die each year from liver disease and liver cancer.

approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis b virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

diphtheria is a serious disease caused by a bacteria. this germ produces a poisonous substance or toxin which frequently causes heart and nerve problems. the death rate is 5 percent to 10 percent, with higher death rates (up to 20 percent) in the very young and the elderly.

in the 1920's, diphtheria was a major cause of illness and death for children in the u.s. in 1921, a total of 206,000 cases and 15,520 deaths were reported. with vaccine development in 1923, new cases of diphtheria began to fall in the u.s., until in 2001 only two cases were reported.

worldwide, tetorifice in newborn infants continues to be a huge problem. every year tetorifice kills 300,000 newborns and 30,000 birth mothers who were not properly vaccinated. even though the number of reported cases is low, an increased number of tetorifice cases in younger persons has been observed recently in the u.s. among intravenous drug users, particularly heroin users.

this is why i believe in vaccination. protect kids against the real proven risks. it could just be that kids who are survivng today because they are not dying from preventable diseases have an increased genetic susceptibility to autism and some of the autoimmune diseases which they are now living to an age where genetic triggers are activated. i think that a lot of these disorders are environmentally caused by pollution or lifestyle issues.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

My daughters will be. Even if she doesn't have sex until she is married, her husband may have and he can infect her. You can get the strains of HPV that cause cancer at any time and I want her to be safe.

I am encouraging my daughters to get the vaccine.

I do think that parents can ask to limit the number of vaccines given at one time to 4 if they are more comfortable with that. I can remember giving 6 vaccines at a shot to reservists and I always thought it made more sense to give vaccines as a series instead of a mass bombardment.