JUST SAY NO TO MNM

rncountry · Mar 24, 2001

Small world huh? We lived there a year, this was while Wurtsmith was being closed. My now ex left the service and we went home. About 40 miles south of Lansing. St. Josephs was my first nursing job and though the wage was low, it was a wonderful place to work. Good teamwork, with a true community feel to it. My brother in law lives up near Marquette. He's always trying to get us to move up there, I say too damn cold most of the time! Lovely to visit in the summer though. I lived there from '91 to '92. Since you were on the lake I probably was driving by your house. Wurtsmith closed fully several years ago, and has been either bought or is rented by an airline company. They are selling off the single dwelling base housing and moving them for people. Went up there a couple years ago to galavanting around up north and went through the base to let my kids soak up some memories. The place we lived in was in the process of being moved. Sad kind of. Tawas and East Tawas are nice little communities. And it really is Gods country up there. Ever go to Au Sable River Days? My kids caught rainbow trout there by hand! My daughter wasn't even in kindergarten then but remembers it well. That and the plastic duck race down the river. Excellant fishing in that river. Good memories there. Yep, it truly is a small world!

Rex · Mar 25, 2001

You May be right wildtime and if the ANA included all bedside Nurses I would do the same but the MNM is including LPN/LVNs, CNAs, and Techs as well. we all have a voice that need to be heard so I am sitting back and waiting on what developes. I belong to the NFLPN but do not see much action from them they don't even have a Texas affiliation but I am rather new to all thats transpiring here. Not to say the ANA might not indirectly affect me, and my fellow LVNs and LPNs. I don't know but the shortage in my area is so severe we all feel rather over whelmed and welcome any attention we can get. frankly I don't care who advocates, or lobbies on our behalf as long as one of these orginizations, associations, clicks, or good ole boys club does something to take the stress off of our careers.

Doc · Mar 25, 2001

Just a couple of thoughts: if we take the approach "this is the way things are going to be from now on and if not, we quit", we will lose the public's support. School teachers have been down this path many times. I am not anti-striking or anti-lobbying by any means - this approach has had success, but very limited success.

Secondly, what is the problem with effecting change through legislation? As some of the other posters here and in other topics have pointed out, it is us who are accountable when some disaster happens, and as the conditions in so many facilities are at such an abismal standard, a disaster is literally waiting to happen! Legislation is what defines our minimum pay, and it is legislation that defines the minimum nurse-patient ratios, maximum hours a nurse is allowed to work, and other conditions. Put simply, legislation sets a state or national standard for conditions that affect patient safety and nurses conditions. Then if your employer disregards that legislation they are committing an offence, and if you find yourself in a malpractice suit or being reported to your registration board or the health complaints commission, you have a concrete defence that your patient ended up in whatever situation because your employer did not follow the legislation which is written in black and white, and your licence, dignity, reputation and life savings remain intact.

Doc

------------------

http://www.GreatNurse.com/

rncountry · Mar 25, 2001

wildtime you don't get it and you aren't going to get it. The MNM invites ALL to participate. There are many deep issues with the ANA, CNA and unions that represent nurses. The politics are deep seated and sometimes ugly. The MNM is not an ANA clone, we are asking for things that the ANA is not. Do your research! There are many nurses out there that feel the ANA is too moderate and compromising towards corporate mentality, witness the vote for disaffiliation in Massachusetts yesterday where 80% voted to disaffliate from the ANA. There are other nurses that are pro-union, others that are anti-union, those that believe the CNA is right on target, others that feel they are too radical. There are progressive specific state ANA associations such as New York and then theres states like Texas and Arizonia. What is happening now is very piecemeal, and the goal of the MNM is to unite as much as possible all the different voices. I have pointed out to you once that the word million voices is in our vision statement. That is where that comes from.

The idea of each nurse on their own standing up and saying I am not going to take it anymore has not been effective. No nurse has been terminated or blackballed for doing what you are proposing? Many states do not even have whistleblower protections for nurses that do stand up for themselves, there are things that individual nurses can do that promote certain things, but we have to work with a collective. The idea that we can accomplish this without legislation sounds good in theory but just asking nurses who have little or no protections to stand up there and put their livlihood at risk by saying have had enough!has a pretty tinny ring to it.

Again I will ask you to give some specifics as to how to accomplish what you are saying. I don't mean reposting the wage thing you have. But a concrete plan that each nurse that chooses can follow. I ask you what are you doing for your profession, you yourself, specifically to accomplish what you seek? As far as a me mentality society, guess thats in the eye of the beholder. Just like any society there is the good, bad and the ugly. Sometimes as nurses, same with cops, we see much more of the ugly. We see the trauma patients that have had the snot kicked out of them for assine reasons, any nurse in the ER can tell you stories of people who throw a fit about having to wait, regardless of rather their injury or whatever is minor. You see to you it is minor, to the doc it is minor because you are trained to recognize that. To the patient however it is not minor. I don't care who you are, anyone that has had to sit in the ER for 6 hours while they are in pain is not a happy camper.

You don't like the ANA, you don't like the CNA, you don't like the MNM and I'm guessing here but you probably don't like unions either. What do you like? Oh, I forgot, nurses standing up for themselves, but wait, only male nurses know how to do that effectively because female nurses won't do it. Sure, thats why I lost a job and didn't work for 15 months. Because I kept my mouth shut. So we have narrowed the field of what you think is effective even further, the ANA won't work, the CNA won't work, the MNM won't work, males need to teach females to stand up for themselves, have I missed anything? We all know that legislation doesn't do a thing. It didn't work to get women the vote, it didn't work to stop children working in sweatshops, it didn't work for blacks being kept from voting or being swung from trees, it didn't work to establish working hours for laborers, and it sure as hell won't work for nurses.

Maybe being an anarchist will work? That surely will get the public educated and on our side, why didn't I think of that? I'll go to work dressed in black, smash a few windows, declare myself free of any interference by the gov't and corporate both, change into scrubs and continue taking care of my patients. Now thats taking control and standing up for myself don't you think?

iamme457 · Mar 26, 2001

This is fun.

May I add some mud and put rope around it and sell tickets?

Deanna

buck227 · Mar 26, 2001

Ok, let me spell this out a bit. What if we had a federal law stating that a nurse can only have 2 critical patients under his/her care (just as an example). Then what happens when there just aren't any more nurses available? What happens if someone calls in sick? or quits? Do they turf the patient to another facility? Do they call an agency? What if the agency can't get anyone? Do they close the facility? and what then? So the hospital is required to have more nurses on staf related to the number of beds. This cuts into the profits and either cuts wadges or causes the hospital to go bankrupt. The way I see it, legislation as to nurse patient ratios or as to staffing minimums will help no one. It will only make things more complicated. The work load is not going to decrease.

The only way to solve the problem is to allow free enterprise to work it out. For example, a hospital wants to provide the best care in it's market. It wants to add a cardiology program or any other special profit making program. It has to have trained nurses to run the program and make the patients want to come to their hospital. So it goes out of it's way to make the work place attractive by hiring more nurses and ancillary personel (nursing assistants etc.), It raises the pay and benefits, adds a nice cafeteria, lets the nurses choose their own schedule, adds a day care dept, increases it's shift diff, offers more matching on its 401k, adds free parking, offers more education and certifications, builds it's reputation, and it keeps it's nurses. Thats why my aurgument is to not stay in a place where you are not happy. Many have criticised me because of that view because they say they can't leave because of their personal dynamics. I understand that but if the majority of us let the big corporations know we are unhappy by moving around, they will catch on. It is cheaper to keep the same people on the payroll than to train new ones every year or so. And in a competitive health care market (like what is found in all the major cities in the U.S.) They are going to have to make things more attractive.

The fact is, everytime there has been legislation that has tampered with the free market system it has raised prices or cost jobs to those involved. I could name a dozen examples.

So I beg you please PLEASE pay very close attention to those who want federal mandates that govern your work practice. It may appear to be giving you more when actually it is robbing you of your freedom.

Another big example is this, there is a nursing shortage because the field is very unattractive to alot of people. The shortage is causing alot of problems but I promise you, if there was no shortage, our wages and benefits would be far worse than they are now. My base pay has risen 26% in the five years I have been an RN. That has nothing to do with rise in cost of living. It is because they have to make it attractive for us to continue working.

Alot of my posts are pro union. Actually I hate the word union because in a union you send your money to a bunch of lawyers out of state who come help you only when you really need it and stir up a whole lot of shit in the process. I like to use the word collective bargoning. We need to influence the increase in the quality of our working conditions as a group. The market will play to us if we make it. It always works that way.

buck

Q. · Mar 26, 2001

Buck that is very interesting and enlightening. I am sort of against unions in a odd way - I believe they had thier place but in the past 10 years, haven't done squat that I know of. We have a small union here in my area, and as I stated, has done squat. What did happen was the nurses walked out of their unit and would not return until things improved; sadly to say the hospital chose to close that unit down rather than bargain with the staff.

I always thought your idea of free enterprise would work, but also played around with the idea of nurses as contractors, rather than employees of the hospital - somewhat like physicians. Perhaps it would give us a bit more leway to bargain individually as well. Just a thought.

Charles S. Smith, RN, MS · Mar 26, 2001

Originally posted by Susy K:
Buck that is very interesting and enlightening. I am sort of against unions in a odd way - I believe they had thier place but in the past 10 years, haven't done squat that I know of. We have a small union here in my area, and as I stated, has done squat. What did happen was the nurses walked out of their unit and would not return until things improved; sadly to say the hospital chose to close that unit down rather than bargain with the staff.
I always thought your idea of free enterprise would work, but also played around with the idea of nurses as contractors, rather than employees of the hospital - somewhat like physicians. Perhaps it would give us a bit more leway to bargain individually as well. Just a thought.

Suzy, Buck..the free enterprise system is alive and well, at least in my area. IHCR, the company I founded, does exactly what you are discussing. We are entrepreneurs, contractors, educators, LNCs, coaches and have niched ourselves quite nicely in the marketplace. Check out our homepage (found under the profile) and email me directly if you want to learn how to turn your nursing career into a profitable and satisfying adventure.

chas

rncountry · Mar 26, 2001

wildtime, I find you antagonisic and chavenistic, however I will say that I understand and hear what you are saying. I simply wish you would do what you are trying to do without being antagonistic about it. I'm sorry that you find what I write boring, or as a story, it is the way I communicate when I am trying to show why I believe what I believe. The point about the federal government is well taken though. How do we have something that is nurses taking care of business per se ourselves. I havent' quite figured that out yet, but I am thinking on it. I am also putting out feelers to others that may have ideas. Collective heads thinking as individuals as to how to do things that will help solve things through nurses by nurses. Without an association or the gov't. Any ideas that you have are welcome.

Mijourney · Mar 26, 2001

Hi. While I think it is important to debate the merits of both, does it have to be the government vs. private industry? Is either entity in and of itself a pancea for the troubles of this country (I'm speaking of the US)? Shouldn't what we really be after is holding people from both groups responsible and accountable for doing what's right? There are nurses who have worked for both government and private hospitals and can no doubt write about horror stories from both. I think a balanced approach to working with private industry and government is needed. Use the strongest points from each. I do feel that if you invest all your eggs in one basket, you need a backup.

buck227 · Mar 27, 2001

Now thats funny

Originally posted by wildtime88:
jammee457, As long as I can wear a thong and you have an ice cold beer waiting for me between rounds, then sure.

Q. · Mar 27, 2001

This kind of paints a disturbing picture for me - although since I don't know what Wildtime looks like, it could actually be a good picture.

Originally posted by wildtime88:
jammee457, As long as I can wear a thong and you have an ice cold beer waiting for me between rounds, then sure.