I don't think I understand pain management.

Nurses General Nursing

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It is drilled into our heads during class time that there is no reason for a person to have severe pain. We are to assess and reassess how pain meds are working and make sure that we get the pain level down to an acceptable/ manageable number. I've experienced at least 2 times in the last couple of months at clinicals that have confused me because I felt that the patient was undermedicated and the nurse disagreed with me and didn't seek additional pain relief. I'll give the two situations and maybe someone can help me understand the reasoning a little better.

The first lady, Mrs. A, was a terminal cancer patient who had been in the hospital for several weeks, with increasing pain. She refused hospice because she thought that she would get better. The last week of my clinical at that facility, Mrs. A was suffering greatly and asked for pain medication often. When I reported to the nurse that Mrs. A was still in pain even though she had been given all the medication that she could have, the nurse said that there was nothing more we could do for her because she refused hospice. Once she goes to hospice, the nurse said, they could increase her pain meds (she was on morphine and various other pain meds). I asked her why we couldn't manage her pain anyways and she said that there was some kind of limitation on how much morphine that could be given without being on hospice. ??? Could someone please explain this to me. I felt so awful for this poor woman. I don't know what happened to her after I left. I can only imagine that her pain got severe enough that she eventually requested hospice services so that she could get pain relief. :(

The second event happened today during my clinical at a subacute facility. Mrs. B is a post surgery pt. in pain, rating her pain at 7/10, with moaning and fidgeting. I didn't take her bp (someone else had taken it) but I took the rest of her vitals and they were within the normal range. She had had 1 vicodin 2.5 hours earlier and it was clearly not lasting long enough. She only had vicodin ordered-1 or 2 tablets. No tylenol, no nothing else for pain. I let the nurse know this and she said that there was nothing more to do for Mrs. B because she couldn't have more vicodin for another 1.5 hours. I asked her if it might be possible to get an order for something else, even Tylenol, and she said that we would just wait and the next time we would give her two vicodin instead of one. The reasoning was that maybe the vicodin would work longer next time with the higher dose. Ok, my question here is, I understand wanting to give the vicodin a chance, but what would be so bad about addressing the pain she was having that very minute? I felt so helpless. I went back to the patient's room and adjusted her and tried to make her as comfortable as possible. I checked her often and adjusted her as much as she wanted. I talked to my instructor and explained what happened and she pretty much agreed with the nurse that unfortunately, sometimes there is nothing more you can do for a person. :( I guess I'm just really confused. What would have been the harm in picking up the phone and letting the doc know the patient was in pain and needed something more for pain? I don't want to act like I don't trust my instructor's or the nurse's judgement. They know a great deal more than I do, so could someone please explain this to me? I wanted with all of my heart to get on the phone to the doctor and ask him for something more, even a little bit of Tylenol.

I have a really hard time with some nurses and their attitudes toward pain management. I've run into situations regarding both young and older nurses with the attitude that "all they ever want is something for pain!"

I had a nurse last week who was managing a pt who was about 12 hrs post amputation of r foot. The doctor had sent him back to the floor without a PCA and he hadn't had anything for pain except one shot (2mg Morphine IV) about 6 hours prior to my arrival on the unit. He wasn't my patient. I just happened to be walking down the hall when the wife came out of the room, tears streaming down her face, begging for something for pain for her husband. When I walked into the room, he was leaning over the side of the bed with his head in his hands, sobbing and BEGGING for something for pain. I found his nurse and explained what I had just seen. She acted as though, this was the first time she had heard anything about this pt being in pain. She goes in, comes out, starts walking to the PIXIS, mumbling, "I'm so tired of this BS...the only thing they ever want is something for pain.." I had to think to myself, "well, if I had just had my foot cut off, I'd probably want something for pain too."

I honestly think that a course on proper pain management should be taught in every medical and nursing school before anyone is allowed to graduate. Although we may not be able to alleviate all pain, it is possible to make it bearable and managable. People should not be allowed to suffer like they are forced to do because of ideas like, "pain makes us stronger," and "you're just a whimp if you complain."

I remember a doctor and a hospital in California being sued by a deceased cancer patient's family (not that long ago) because they allowed him to die in insufferable agony because of their fear that the patient would become addicted. The family won. I'm sorry, but if more doctors and hospitals were sued for this, and it started affecting their bottom line, they may start thinking differently.

Opiate type drugs are usually the safest drugs to give for pain. They cause very little tissue and organ damage, compared to NSAIDs and tylenol, and less death to bleeding, liver damage, etc. They also cause, according to statistics, less addiction than once was believe. Even for addicts, I believe that their pain should also be addressed by whatever means is possible. In today's world of medical advances and technology, there should be no reason in this world that someone should die in agony.

This is what I was taught in school about pain management.

Pain is what the patient says it is, not what the nurse thinks it is. Pain is to be managed where it is acceptable to the patient. Certain chronic conditions are not managed with narcs, such as chronic pancreatitis, due to the patient developing a tolerance and addiction but effective pain management measures are just as important. Terminal illness is much different, and every effort is made to decrease the pain without regard to worrying about addiction. We have special nurses that specialize in pain managment especially for the term. ill, and if we ever have questions we can call them for a reference and second oppinion before we call the doctor.

I always look at pain from how I would feel if I was in the patients position. I would not want to die after suffering months or years of unbearable pain. Pain is the "fifth" vital sign and controlling it is just as important as controlling blood pressure. You want to use the minimum amount of medication ordered, but if you have to use the maximum, perhaps you should consult with the doctor about strength of med or alternate med. This is your job as the nurse, because the MD trusts you to monitor the patient's response to the treatments that they order.

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: As nurses, we are first and foremost, advocates for our patients

Having two "ranges" in one order is a new and big huge JCAHO no-no. They hammered and hammered that into us and our docs before the visit from the big honchos this summer. You can have 1-2 mg q 20 min or 1-2 q 30 min, but not what was ordered. I don't necessarily agree with it; just another thing JCAHO came up with to create more paper work, things to ding us on. I agree that pain management needs to have parameters that allow some flexibility, however.

The problem with writing an order this way is that it is misinterpreted. 1-2mg q 20 min -30 min would mean that you cannot exceed 2mg within 30 min.

Originally Posted by DAREINGTX

I had a post op pt last night with an order for hydromorphone 1-2mg q20-30 min....Now thats pain mgmt.

My question is why were you not on a PCA.

When I walked into the room, he was leaning over the side of the bed with his head in his hands, sobbing and BEGGING for something for pain. I found his nurse and explained what I had just seen. She acted as though, this was the first time she had heard anything about this pt being in pain. She goes in, comes out, starts walking to the PIXIS, mumbling, "I'm so tired of this BS...the only thing they ever want is something for pain.." I had to think to myself, "well, if I had just had my foot cut off, I'd probably want something for pain too."

Gypsymoom-This is terrible. If I were you, I would take your post an give it to your NM-anonymously if necessary. This nurse is not going to "understand" pain management on her own. Besides, pain management is a basic duty while taking care of post-op patients.

Some of you may remember from my earlier post of this thread that I am a patient with ovarian cancer. I have had nurses in my GYN oncologist's office complain (in front of me) about having to draw my blood from my port and also complaining about scheduling a pricedure I needed. This is part of their job! I did complain on a survey that was handed to patients shortly after these incidents. Plus, I wrote to my local newspaper-they have a section 2-3 days a week for complaints-about anything. I wrote that I was upset with health care professionals who did not want to do their job. The paper published it. I hope some health care professsionals read it and it caused an impact.

Stephanie RN

I don't understand why dealing with the frequent-flyer drug-seekers would influence a nurse to withhold pain med from someone who needs it.

Why should one patient be punished for something they didn't even do?

Makes no sense to me...

I don't understand why dealing with the frequent-flyer drug-seekers would influence a nurse to withhold pain med from someone who needs it.

Why should one patient be punished for something they didn't even do?

Makes no sense to me...

I think that it is pure ignorance on the part of health care professionals thinking that if they give an opiate for pain it will exacerbate their addiction. I'm sure that for many nurses, they mean well. I have a very good friend, beautiful and intellegent, who has suffered from addiction since she was 13 (she's now 46), and has been in recovery since 1998. She just found out last week, after having an x-ray after an automobile accident, that they discovered a "spot" in the upper lobe of her left lung. We have done many nights of long-distance prayer together and discussion. She wants to be honest with her doctors about her addiction and recovery, but she's terrified if things get really bad, that they will not manage her pain. I felt compelled to tell her not to say anything because they might let that cloud their treatment of her (especially in the area of pain management). Of course, and hopefully, it may turn out to be benign and not even get to that point.

And proper pain management doesn't always mean using an opiate. In fact, the best pain drug that I have ever been given wasn't an opiate at all. It was Toradol and it was a "miracle" drug for me at the time. We can also use a host of other things to make the patient comfortable and better able to cope with pain.

I know that when a person is still in school, it's probably best just to do things the way that the instructor tells you to do it, and that was a huge problem that I struggled with throughout school . But when you get out on your own, you can use your best judgement about pain control. I have had instructors that would use the least powerful pain med like Tylenol, and then make the patient (I'm talking about cancer and post-surgical patients) wait another 2 to 4 hours for something stronger. They would say, "let's give them the tylenol first, and if this doesn't work, then we will give them the 2mg of morphine," instead of just giving them the morphine to begin with. What I do is, if it's on their MAR, I go ahead and give them the strong stuff (if it's indicated). This makes the patient more comfortable, more quickly, and allows me to be able to tend to his/her other needs and the needs of my other patients.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Hospice.

While recovering from abdominal surgery (I had peritonitis) , I asked for pain meds and then waited over an hour before it was delivered. The reason? My nurse needed a cigarettte. That is exactly what she said when another nurse (her manager, I assume?) escorted her to my room and asked me how long I had been waiting for meds.

While recovering from abdominal surgery (I had peritonitis) , I asked for pain meds and then waited over an hour before it was delivered. The reason? My nurse needed a cigarettte. That is exactly what she said when another nurse (her manager, I assume?) escorted her to my room and asked me how long I had been waiting for meds.

OMG! When I was in the hospital post c/s, I had maxed out the morphine (I was only allowed 1mg IV per 4 or 6 hrs) and had requested a heating pad for my back (those afterpains!!)...it took her 2 hours to get me the heating pad and I was still 2-3 hours away from getting more morphine! Oucheroo! Those afterpains honestly hurt more than the incision did.

Specializes in LTC.
Lisa, it is making me frustrated just reading your thread. I have obviously met the very same nurses all through my career and have never understood their thinking. Especially the ones who are afraid of making terminal patients 'addicted'. Aaarrrgh!!

Don't know if it is country wide or not, but in Oregon you now have to take a pain management class before you can re-new your license. I certainly hope it can get through to certain folks that it really is unacceptable for patients to be in pain, with staff giving excuses like there is nothing that can be done. Personally, I would not be able to live with myself if I didn't try my hardest to make sure my patients were as comfortable as possible.

I know this digresses from the original post, but I live in OR and was wondering where we go for the pain mgt class...of course I will check with the BON but I'm feeling lazy at the moment.

To the OP, I'm a recent grad myself and have encountered the same attitudes re pain management...especially from nurses who are more worried about causing constipation of all things. Sheesh, why do you think the good lord invented colace?!? I don't have any answers for you except for when you become a nurse continue to be the excellent patient advocate that you already are.

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