How do you deal with doctors - page 4
:eek: The other day doctor came in screeming his head off about something minor. The nurse was afraied of him and didn't say anything to him. How would you guys react to this would you tell him that... Read More
May 9, '02One attending surgeon contacted me, screaming at me because of what one of "my" nurses did, and the fact that another one of "my" nurses had called him about him. I motioned him to sit down and he did.
My response: "First of all, Doctor, I do not own any nurses. Owning people was outlawed in this country in 1864 and although I am a dinosaur that was a little before my time." He chuckled a little bit and relaxed. Then we started discussing the problem that the first nurse in question had caused. He was clearly in the right, and any conscientious doctor would have been upset at what had occurred. I promised him that after reviewing her records I would deal with it either educationally or administratively, whichever was more appropriate. He got up to leave. I motioned him to sit down. "I'm not finished with my piece. I am very glad that the second nurse worked up her courage to call you and tell you what happened, even though she knew she would be screamed at. That way, we could all try to help the patient."
He was shocked that I would say such a thing, and asked me what I meant. I told him that the nursing staff in general perceived him as demanding, unapproachable, and downright rude, and avoided interacting with him whenever possible. I asked him what he thought of that.
He seemed genuinely hurt that people saw him that way. I went on: "The way you approached me was not likely to get me, or any other manager, to do anything but try to defend the staff. Screaming is bullying behavior. I've been doing this long enough that I can work my way around anyone, but I certainly didn't relish the idea of talking with you. I think you need to know how the nurses see you, and make whatever changes you think are appropriate."
I must have caught him off guard. He apologized for screaming at me, and promised he would be more polite in the future. While that wasn't always the case, the temper tantrums did stop. He has since retired, and by that time most of the nurses who worked with him on a regular basis actually missed him.
May 11, '02Along with Gomer's advice of the big stick, I then remind the doctor having the tantrum that I am not the one who held a gun to their head and forced them against their will to go to med school and that further I did not force you to go inot _______ specialty. If you didn't want to be up at this unGodly hour why didn't you go into dermatology?
Shut's 'em up every time!Last edit by fedupnurse on May 11, '02
May 11, '02Thanks for your input.
I had one pt. who came up from Endo with orders one morning, and it was extremely hectic on our floor. Knowing that the Unit Sec was totally swamped, I went ahead and completed the F/U orders, and initialed them on the side of the order, and wrote the times in the notes.
About 4 hours later, this little (truly, about 5'5" --I'm 5'8") doc is standing at the chart, screaming his guts out for "This Pt's NURSE NOW!!"
I was peeved; that Pt. was just fine. He proceeded to rant about "those orders haven't been taken off yet" and on and on in the crowded hallway as loudly as possible.
I actually found myself standing toe-to-toe with him, highly miffed at being pulled from where I was really needed, and said firmly about 3" from his face, "Look, just because the unit secretary doesn't take the order off, does NOT mean that I have not already taken care of it. Those orders were complete within an hour of the Pt's arrival. So read the nurses notes. OK?"
And I turned around and went back to the Pt. I had been in with.
Then...out of sight, I started shaking. For the first time in my life, I was glad that I have delayed reactions....:chuckle He never did that again. Prolly afraid I'd sit on 'im and squish 'im like a bug.
May 11, '02After 30 years in nursing I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH ABUSIVE DOCTORS! I keep my cool but tell them they have no right to talk to me that way and that I will not stand for it! I have noticed that some are very taken aback...but I tell you, they change their attitude right away. On our next encounter I seem to be treated with the utmost respect. Look at it this way..the hospitals need us much more than we need them...any of us could have offers for an infinative number of jobs the very next day...LET YOUR ADMINISTRATORS AND DOCTORS KNOW THIS!
May 11, '02After 30 years in nursing I WILL NOT PUT UP WITH ABUSIVE DOCTORS! I keep my cool but tell them they have no right to talk to me that way and that I will not stand for it! I have noticed that some are very taken aback...but I tell you, they change their attitude right away. On our next encounter I seem to be treated with the utmost respect. Look at it this way..the hospitals need us much more than we need them...any one of of us could have offers for an infininate number of jobs the very next day...LET YOUR ADMINISTRATORS AND DOCTORS KNOW THIS!
May 12, '02What I have said is, "What's wrong? Your wife not give you any this morning or what?" Matching hateful with hateful worked in that situation. Everybody laughed.
"Who pis--- in your cornflakes, wiener?" I said that to a doc named eugene. i called him wiener.
May 12, '02My first experience with a doctor yelling at me was when I was 14. He was a cardiologist and I was a candy striper, helping out in treadmill that day. The nurse I was working with stepped between us, told him not to yell at me (or anyone else, for that matter), and then informed him that I had done what SHE had told me to do. (The treadmill pt was finished and she told me to step outside and get his wife so she could be in there when the MD came in to talk to them. However, the pt started having CP right after his wife came in, and the MD was upset that the wife was seeing it.)
That doc was my grandpa's cardiologist but not for long after I went home and told my mom what happened. Papa wouldn't even go back to that hospital after that. If he had chest pain, he wouldn't call 911 because they would take him to that hospital. He'd have my uncle (who lived with him) drive him to the hospital of his choice.
I will never forget that nurse (her name was Mary), and I try to look to her as a role model for how to stand up to MDs.
So far I haven't had any really bad experiences in person; they've all been on the phone in the middle of the night, usually trying to get a doc on call for a patient he's never seen to give me some orders. One of our pulmonologists often says, "Why are you calling me?" over and over until you get frustrated and hang up, after explaining why you're calling several times. I just document and keep calling as needed. Once every couple of months an internal medicine doc takes call for nephrology and he's nearly impossible to get adequate orders out of as well, especially for a patient who's not responding to aggressive renal treatment.
Fortunately, most of the time when I call a doc, I have in mind what I want, ask for it, and they say OK.
Great thread, and thanks to whoever posted the "short doc" thread. It was quite funny.
The short docs we have don't seem to be afflicted with that syndrome, thank heaven.
May 12, '02When you learn how to speak to me like I am a human being then come talk to me!!!!!:roll