help, i didn't know i did something wrong

Nurses General Nursing

Published

hello everyone,

hope somebody can help.

i'm a per diem nurse and work at several hospitals. two of the hospitals require acls. when i went for my recert, i billed both hospital for fulfilling a job requirement. my new nurse manager, said I CANNOT do this and is accusing me of falsifying documentation.

I didn't realize this, each different hospital required this education and now she's saying i'm deceitful for doing such a thing.

i'm scared i'm going to lose my job, i didn't realize i was doing anything wrong, it's a job requirement.

thanks

sarah

you asked for help because you didn't know you had done something wrong. i took that as asking what you should do to rectify it. all of us said pretty much the same thing. i never said it made you a bad nurse, and i don't recall anyone else saying that, but i don't think making a mistake makes you a bad nurse. you're right, we all make mistakes, but ya know what? if all of the responses you're getting are saying the same thing, then maybe there's an element of truth? maybe, rather than be offended, it's time to step back and take another look at the situation and consider that perhaps you really did screw up? i don't believe you were deceitful, i honestly believe that you didn't realize what you were doing, but there is a lesson to be learned here.

if you worked full time or part time at one of the facilities and per d at the second, would you have still billed both for the course? double billing is wrong in any circumstance, and if done deliberately is illegal. i do not see the difference in billing both places for the cost of the course, or for the education time. either way it's making both places pay for the same thing.

perhaps an alternative for the future would be to bill one facility for one course and the second for another course. i was going to suggest alternating years for the acls but since it's a two-year cert that's not realistic.

Specializes in ED, ICU, PSYCH, PP, CEN.

I attend all courses on my own time and pay for them myself. This way I own my education, and I reap the benefits of it.

I had an interesting observation the other day. I used to make 13 dollars an hour and thought if I just made 20 I would be living the high life. I have worked my way up to 50 an hour for a lot of jobs and still am not living the high life. It's never enough. Now I try to be selective and just work where I like it, because money isn't worth it if your life is miserable.

Now if only I could win the lottery I know life would be grand!

Maybe there was an element of not understanding what the extra payment was for -was to function as reimbursement or was it some kind of incentive or bonus pay?

If policy is that whenever an employee got recert'd that they get a little bonus from the facility, then it's not a problem. If on a holiday or for nurses' day or whatever, a facility gives out a small financial bonus, it's not wrong to accept such a bonus at more than one place.

But if the policy of payment is supposed to be for either reimbursement of time (to take the class) or for class costs, then to submit two different reimbursement requests for the same item is a problem.

Yes, it's not fair that one facility would end up footing the bill while the other one still benefitted, but it would be even less fair for the nurse to actually make more money back than was invested in the cost of the course.

I can see where some confusion might come up if the facility is paying for one's time as that pay is usually a token amount that doesn't come close to matching one's wages and thus isn't as clearly "double-dipping" as it would be if both were clearly paying full hourly wage for class time.

I can also see where someone might rationalize the questionable pratice of submitting for time reimbursement at two places since each was willing to pay for it and there's no clear receipt of amount owed as there would be if it were the facility were specifically reimbursing the nurse for the cost of the class. It would easy to conclude that one has just gotten lucky that both facilities are willing to pay for the class time. And it might even work out that way in some places with each facility not having any question of whether or not the time was reimbursed elsewhere.

To me it sounded the the OP wasn't really sure exactly where she went wrong and to just tell her it should be obvious it was wrong doesn't do much to enlighten her. I know I hate when someone ascribes a reason to my mistake than doesn't fit with my experience. In this case, hey, if a person can get paid twice for the same thing and it's okay, why not? But it appears that the OP misjudged the situation and has ended up in some hot water.

So... was the mistake that she thought she could get away with getting paid twice for the same thing? Was the mistake made in assuming that the policy was more like a bonus than a reimbursement? Was the mistake in thinking only about her benefits and not about the costs to the facility and the purpose of the payment? Heck, maybe the OP only got found out because she made the mistake of bragging to colleague about the double payment.

Regardless of what the OP's intent was (deliberate, unthinking, chosen ignorance), the OP now has to deal with it. Some good advice has been given on how to move on with minimal damage.

To me it sounded the the OP wasn't really sure exactly where she went wrong and to just tell her it should be obvious it was wrong doesn't do much to enlighten her.

Umm.....go back and reread the posts......I do believe that several, if not all of us, spelled it out.

hi

thank you all for your response and help. i'm embarrassed that i used poor judgment and got myself into such a mess. i'm hoping i do not lose my job for my error.

i did want to clariify that i never billed two hospital for the cost of ACLS. Both hospitals allow me 16 hours education time per year for job requirements, skills pertaining to my job, etc. That was how i made my bad judgment. i asked for reimbursement for 8 hours education from two facilities that required a particular certification.

thanks again for all your help and direction.

Maybe there was an element of not understanding what the extra payment was for -was to function as reimbursement or was it some kind of incentive or bonus pay?

If policy is that whenever an employee got recert'd that they get a little bonus from the facility, then it's not a problem. If on a holiday or for nurses' day or whatever, a facility gives out a small financial bonus, it's not wrong to accept such a bonus at more than one place.

But if the policy of payment is supposed to be for either reimbursement of time (to take the class) or for class costs, then to submit two different reimbursement requests for the same item is a problem.

Yes, it's not fair that one facility would end up footing the bill while the other one still benefitted, but it would be even less fair for the nurse to actually make more money back than was invested in the cost of the course.

I can see where some confusion might come up if the facility is paying for one's time as that pay is usually a token amount that doesn't come close to matching one's wages and thus isn't as clearly "double-dipping" as it would be if both were clearly paying full hourly wage for class time.

I can also see where someone might rationalize the questionable pratice of submitting for time reimbursement at two places since each was willing to pay for it and there's no clear receipt of amount owed as there would be if it were the facility were specifically reimbursing the nurse for the cost of the class. It would easy to conclude that one has just gotten lucky that both facilities are willing to pay for the class time. And it might even work out that way in some places with each facility not having any question of whether or not the time was reimbursed elsewhere.

To me it sounded the the OP wasn't really sure exactly where she went wrong and to just tell her it should be obvious it was wrong doesn't do much to enlighten her. I know I hate when someone ascribes a reason to my mistake than doesn't fit with my experience. In this case, hey, if a person can get paid twice for the same thing and it's okay, why not? But it appears that the OP misjudged the situation and has ended up in some hot water.

So... was the mistake that she thought she could get away with getting paid twice for the same thing? Was the mistake made in assuming that the policy was more like a bonus than a reimbursement? Was the mistake in thinking only about her benefits and not about the costs to the facility and the purpose of the payment? Heck, maybe the OP only got found out because she made the mistake of bragging to colleague about the double payment.

Regardless of what the OP's intent was (deliberate, unthinking, chosen ignorance), the OP now has to deal with it. Some good advice has been given on how to move on with minimal damage.

Specializes in being a Credible Source.

This whole situation brings up a point that's worth remembering for all of us.

Often, when deciding something, it's not simply a matter of whether one thinks it's OK. One should also consider how others might view the situation. If one finds themselves having to justify their action to themselves then it's likely that said action might not be well-received by others.

Sometimes it doesn't matter whether you're justified in what you decided; sometimes the likely opinions of others should be the deciding factor.

The more that you have to debate something with yourself, the more likely it is that you'll find opposing opinions in others.

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
This whole situation brings up a point that's worth remembering for all of us.

Often, when deciding something, it's not simply a matter of whether one thinks it's OK. One should also consider how others might view the situation. If one finds themselves having to justify their action to themselves then it's likely that said action might not be well-received by others.

Sometimes it doesn't matter whether you're justified in what you decided; sometimes the likely opinions of others should be the deciding factor.

The more that you have to debate something with yourself, the more likely it is that you'll find opposing opinions in others.

Wow! Great post.

When I have to think about a situation a lot in order to figure it out or justify a decision I am trying to make ... I find it helpful to get a few other opinions. That's especially true if the person who might disagree or have a problem with my decision is my boss.

Sometimes, I'll decide to take a risk an make the controversial decision. But I'll only do that when I am willing to pay the consequences if other people disagree with me.

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