Does Gender Affect Our Views On Pay?

Nurses work hard, place themselves in perilous situations, and juggle multiple challenges during an average shift. Why are other nurses adamant that the pay does matter? I believe that historical factors and gender roles are major contributors to the ways in which we view the issue of compensation. Nurses Announcements Archive Article Video

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The other day I was involved in a cyber 'chat' with a user on another popular social networking site who happens to be a nurse in a different state than the one in which I reside. Even though this person has never met me in person or worked with me one single day in our lives, she typed, "You're probably one of those lazy nurses who wants top dollar for minimal work."

Instead of stumbling into the knee-jerk reaction of taking immediate offense, I remained cognizant that people can become antagonistic when cloaked by the anonymity of the vast world wide web. I also set aside a brief moment to perform some self reflection. Am I lazy? Do I do minimal work? Well, my bosses at my workplace don't seem to think so, as evidenced by the excellent employee performance review I recently received.

Do I want top dollar for the work that I perform? Well, I'd most certainly be lying through my teeth if I said no.

Educated Professions Dominated Women

Take a long, hard look at the educated professions that are dominated by women. Nursing, social work, school teaching, library science, and psychology are the college majors and professions that are overwhelmingly occupied by females. With the lone exception of nursing, these careers offer some of the lowest starting salaries in the US. It is not a coincidence that the lowest-paying professions in the entire country are taken up by women, whereas the highest-paying professions are filled with men. Something historical is in play.

Many female nurses make statements such as, "The money doesn't matter to me," or "I would do this job for free." They have the tendency to hem, haw and gently beat around the bush when it comes to discussing salaries, raises, and issues that revolve around compensation, even when they're living from paycheck to paycheck. Many women are reluctant to negotiate.

Men Place Greater Significance On Compensation

Meanwhile, countless men who take up nursing are not afraid to openly discuss pay rates and salaries. When receiving what they perceive to be a job offer with a lowball starting salary, it is not uncommon for male nurses to attempt to negotiate for a higher pay rate, become amused at the interviewer, or even walk away from the offer altogether. I know that my following comment might drum up some controversy, but I feel that men place a greater significance on compensation than their female counterparts.

Think about it. Even in entry-level jobs such as serving and waiting tables, male waiters generally opt for the places where more money can be made through bigger tips and gratuities such as steakhouses, casual dining eateries, fine dining establishments, and restaurants on the grounds of country clubs. Although female servers do work at more upscale places, it is also normal to see a virtually all-female staff at low-cost family dining restaurants such as the Waffle House, Denny's, IHOP, and cafes where less tips are generated due to the substantially lower meal prices.

I'm a nurse who works hard and deals with various challenges during the course of a routine shift. Therefore, I feel no shame in my game for wanting a competitive pay rate for all the services that I render. Anyone who says that "The money doesn't matter" is selling herself short.

It's time to negotiate a Higher Salary!

Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.

This doesn't surprise me in the least, and it saddens me. However, one thing I have noticed is that when a woman is asserts herself, she is labeled as an aggressive witch, but when a man does the same, he is seen as confident and assertive. It is that double standard that bothers me.

ThePrincessBride said:
This doesn't surprise me in the least, and it saddens me. However, one thing I have noticed is that when a woman is asserts herself, she is labeled as an aggressive witch, but when a man does the same, he is seen as confident and assertive. It is that double standard that bothers me.

I agree. I've noticed though that it's a problem that is slowly correcting itself these days. Hopefully this will be the generation where it finally just dies off completely.

PRICHARILLAisMISSED said:
I agree. I've noticed though that it's a problem that is slowly correcting itself these days. Hopefully this will be the generation where it finally just dies off completely.

This is a little off topic, but there are a lot of things in society that are extremely bias for women. I'm not going to go through it all because we already know it's the truth... Now, although I don't have vast knowledge in this area I DO KNOW the average woman expenses are less than a man... We are EXPECTED to be the bread winners for our family w/o some of the support women have... I'm not saying all female student nurses are married, but I've seen a ton of posts on this website that states a good number of you are and CAN attend school w/o being financially responsible for your household... It's 2012 and roles are increasingly becoming even, BUT it is a double standard that goes both ways...

Do I believe it's fair that predominately male professions get paid a significant amount of more money than professions occupied by majority women??? HELL NO!!! Especially teachers, but I also understand the financial burden a man is responsible for... No way other way to cut it, a woman is allowed to be broke in our society, while a man that can't provide for his family is next to the worst scum in America... Like I said it's 2012 and gender roles are becoming blurry, but something like this isn't going to change overnight... If male nurses are making a significant amount of money than females for doing the same job, women need to step up and say something... You have before, Affirmative Action provided a ton of opportunities for women and minorities... You guys are the majority in America and have a voice... Stand UP!!!!

i have so much respect for u thecommuter and others like u. i have never negociated my pay b4. i just take whatever they offer me. even when i try to the manager just says no and i go with them. i just dont have the cojones for it and they can see that in my face. so sad...... i deserve to be struggling like i am now

Being a male and a student, I cannot comment much on the nursing side. But I can say that people will follow those they choose to. This is evident in the military. Find a ****-poor commmander, and no one will pay attention. I saw this first hand in Iraq with the US Army. Find a person, regardless of gender, who is confident (not arrogant/cocky), compassionate (not a bleeding heart floosie), and knowledgable, and people will follow their lead. I know we did overseas while at war. We ignored the MALE officer and followed the FEMALE Sargeant. As such, we lost no one on that particular mission, and still got the supplies we were hauling to the destination WITHOUT any loss. Gender doesn't matter as much as it did in the past, and it matters less and less every day.

Rant done and over.

Specializes in Trauma.
ahampton said:
Being a male and a student, I cannot comment much on the nursing side. But I can say that people will follow those they choose to. This is evident in the military. Find a ****-poor commmander, and no one will pay attention. I saw this first hand in Iraq with the US Army. Find a person, regardless of gender, who is confident (not arrogant/cocky), compassionate (not a bleeding heart floosie), and knowledgable, and people will follow their lead. I know we did overseas while at war. We ignored the MALE officer and followed the FEMALE Sargeant. As such, we lost no one on that particular mission, and still got the supplies we were hauling to the destination WITHOUT any loss. Gender doesn't matter as much as it did in the past, and it matters less and less every day.

Rant done and over.

Yep. People tend to respond to a person that exhibits confidence and will make a decision on the spot. There is nothing worse than trying to depend on someone that is afraid to make a decision.

How many successful people allow others to take advantage of them? As a whole, males tend to be more aggressive where females tend not to. This could play a part in why there are vastly more male CEO's and such. They go out and get it.

Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
HM-8404 said:
As a whole, males tend to be more aggressive where females tend not to. This could play a part in why there are vastly more male CEO's and such. They go out and get it.

Perhaps most females are socialized to not be aggressive.

As someone previously mentioned, a double standard exists. When a man is being aggressive, he is viewed as confident, self-assured and in control. On the other hand, aggressive women are too commonly perceived as out-of-line and are referred to as the vulgar word that rhymes with 'witch' but starts with a 'B.'

Specializes in Trauma.
TheCommuter said:
Perhaps most females are socialized to not be aggressive.

As someone previously mentioned, a double standard exists. When a man is being aggressive, he is viewed as confident, self-assured and in control. On the other hand, aggressive women are too commonly perceived as out-of-line and are referred to as the vulgar word that rhymes with 'witch' but starts with a 'B.'

There is a difference in a strong self-confident woman and a itch (insert B). Just like there is a difference between a strong self-confident man and a rick (insert P). It is easy to tell when someone is just faking it or over compensating. Nobody respects a poser, male or female.

HM-8404 said:
There is a difference in a strong self-confident woman and a itch

But in reality, they're often confused.

Specializes in ED, Telemetry,Hospice, ICU, Supervisor.

I blame it on therapeutic communication techniques taught in Rn school. Students from the get go are taught to use open-ended touchy feel communication skills rather than being direct. This in turn makes you send less assertive when negotiating compensation rates. What sounds more to the point, " How does paying X amount per hour make you feel ?" vs " Based on my experience, education, and current pay for the surrounding hospitals I believe X amount per hour would be fair".

Specializes in Trauma.
kalevra said:
I blame it on therapeutic communication techniques taught in Rn school. Students from the get go are taught to use open-ended touchy feel communication skills rather than being direct. This in turn makes you send less assertive when negotiating compensation rates. What sounds more to the point, " How does paying X amount per hour make you feel ?" vs " Based on my experience, education, and current pay for the surrounding hospitals I believe X amount per hour would be fair".

I never thought about it that way. I can see that being a factor.

I only have experience with my nursing class so I am not sure if mine is normal or out of the ordinary. The vast majority of females in my class are in their early 20's, very early 20's, and the majority of the males are late 20's+. By the end of school I would guess most of the females have either never held a job or worked fast food, etc. where there is really no pay negotiation, whereas most of the guys have held career type jobs and may have had experience in negotiating pay in the past.

Also, don't forget so many go into nursing just because they want to be a nurse. How many times have we heard, "If you're going into nursing for the money then you are doing it for all the wrong reasons." Could this cause some people to feel guilty about wanting more money because they don't want to be perceived as a "selfish" nurse? Perhaps administrators use that thinking to their advantage when setting pay scales.

Specializes in PCU, ICU.

I too, wish Nursing salaries were higher to reflect the advanced skills and knowledge we must use, the degree of accountability we uphold, and the ongoing training and education required to maintain our licensure. I am surprised the ANA has not gotten further than they have, in this debate. It just goes to show the degree of influence the American Medical Asoociation has overall throughout the industry and in government affairs, preventing nurses from being fully recognized for their role in patient care. It is sad. I used to enjoy my work, until I realized that my pay just didn't add up. I never thought I would be one to focus on the money, but when you look at lifetime earnings, Nurses are severely short changed!

I think this is an issue every Nurse must write to his/her State representative about. We must join together and send a clear message to create influence and change. How are we supposed to make Nursing a great profession for future nurses when the profession is fraught with low wages, shiftwork, and an unfriendly work environment (we still see lateral violence, difficult MDs, and no breaks) ? If America wants healthcare, then Nurses need to be compensated fairly, and be able to work in a safe environment.