Bush says limiting lawsuits will save healthcare

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · Oct 21, 2004

This is what bears repeating. Tort reform alone won't make insurance companies lower their premiums, regardless of whether their risk is decreased. Have you ever known a company to say "Oh, we don't need all this money now, so we'll charge less"? I haven't. Once tort reform becomes a reality the insurance companies will just say "But we are still paying huge judgements!" or "People are still filing frivolous lawsuits" or whatever.

LOL! This is exactly what I said to most of the folks I knew in Oregon that wanted to vote for the caps of non-economic damages! It was like "oh yeah sure, insurance companies giving breaks or money back when they have had it! It is like having a deduction in your own wages because your employer says you are too expensive and to lower the cost of healthcare everyone must deduct a few bucks from their wages! Not going to happen!".

The deal with Oregon's, and I fear the same with a national cap as well, is that a said amount is picked...not due to situation...just BOOM, here is a figure and ours would be 500,000! I don't even know who came up with the figure...funny that wasn't mentioned in the information I recieved. The literature I saw points to the US Health and Services Department..but it stated they have seen that limits have decreased health care costs...nothing in particular about them setting this price, or that it will decrease costs for malpractice insurance...just it will help save healthcare 5%...ummmmm healthcare is a pretty large catagory there! LOL!

If someone can get together and write a good cap r/t incident or situation...well I think that would be much better. Of course someone will always find a way around it...like what I fear will happen here if this is voted in. Okay so you can only get 500,000 for pain/suffering...so lets really milk the economic rewards!!!! (and we will watch those skyrocket!).

I am far from the person with the answers to this...in fact, my husband was harmed by a LARGE pharmacy error and we didn't sue them!!! We knew mistakes happen, and it was very sad because after my hubby's heart attack we chose to handle his sitatuation with medication and not surgery right away. The pharmacies label said on two of his medication the right dose, but when we looked a the pills we noticed they were no longer the same..okay that happens with generics and what not...but we found we were right! 1/2 the dose he needed! He went in for a nuclear study and the arteries were worse, so stenting had to be done. The pharmacy in question had to pay for everything..the tests, the proceedure, the hosptial stay, and lost wages..and we settled with them without a lawyer...just gave them the bill and said "pay this or we will get a lawyer!". They paid!!!!!!

We realized that we live in a rural area, and if we had taken that pharmacy to court, they would have had to either bump up prices, or go out of business (they are a good old fashioned mom and pop pharmacy...and they were devistated by what they did...they have known most of us since infancy and they really did feel terrible!). We have a large elderly population and lower income folks here, we didn't want to do that to them! Some people say we were idiots for not suing, but my hubby is fine...we didn't pay for the correction...we were not put into economic dismay...so why hurt others???

But so many others would!!!! And that isn't right! We need to have a way to filter out these suits that really shouldn't be there, and that is the answer I think..but who to make in charge of making that choice...beats the heck out of me!!!!!

fergus51 · Oct 21, 2004

TriageRN, I actually know of a lot of blatant errors where patients have chosen NOT to sue. My dad almost died thanks to a med error and we didn't sue either (anaphylactic rx to toradol, which should never have been prescribed in the first place since he's allergic to asprin). I have seen some real screw ups in my time as a nurse and only one that's resulted in a lawsuit.

imenid37 · Oct 21, 2004

I agree w/ both Fergus and Shay. Is tort reform a silver bullet? No way! However, the malpractice crisis is very real. I work in Ob and we are being slammed. My sister is an attorney for an insurance company. She does mostly workers comp cases. She will tell you honestly that a lot of lawsuits are total Cr*P. She will also tell you that depending upon where a suit is filed, often very weak cases against doctors, employers, etc. wiil "get something." There's a HUGE sympathy factor and the idea that if a child is imperfect or a worker is injured that someone w/ deep pockets must pay for it. I feel terrible for families who are raising a profoundly disabled child. There should be a fund to help them w/ their expenses administered by our government. Sometimes awful things happen through no one's fault. Sometimes they are indeed the provider's fault or many times the patient's. Patients who are told to report for f/u testing and don't. Pt. who snort cocaine to expedite their labour, etc., etc. I think if providers felt more like only the negligent or incompetent providers were getting nailed, they'd be less likely to protect them. As it is now, there is a "there but by the grace of God go I" attitude about lawsuits. A doctor or midwife knows that this week it is Dr. X in a suit, next week it might be me. As a nurse I also worry about lawsuits. I work w/ a doctor who did a GYN surgery on a pt. (a non-pt. care hospital employee) who sufferred some post-op complications. These were complications which were rare, but possible in the case of someone undergoing this type of procedure (complications outlined on the op permit). The insurance company settled the suit and the pt. recieved $. The patient tried to make an appointment w/ the dr. post-lawsuit. He refused. She told him personally, that she "felt he was a good dr. and wanted to continue to be cared for by him, but also felt she had sufferred and deserved to be compensated." Is that punishing a bad dr.? The patient obviously feels he wasn't a bad dr. She just wants money for her sufferring. My daughter was ill for about 7 years w/ arthritis. She sufferred and lost out on many childhood activities because of her illness. I'd like some money too. I lost time from work. We could use some $ too. It wasn't anyone's fault she was ill and I guess we an't pretend it was or tell a jury it was, just like it is often no one's fault when a child is born w/ CP or a patient has a post-op infection or a reaction to a new med. There are cases where pt's deserve money. There are cases where all the money ever produced can not make up for the wrong done to someone and in between there are many cases where financial compensation is not indicated.

Here's an idea...what about a cap on attorneys' fees? No longer one third of whatever, but perhaps no more tha $500,000/ case. I know that one will never happen. Without the potential to extract a huge fee for themselves attorneys may be less inclined to go for outrageous settlements.

Katmae RN · Oct 21, 2004

Here's an idea...what about a cap on attorneys' fees? No longer one third of whatever, but perhaps no more tha $500,000/ case. I know that one will never happen. Without the potential to extract a huge fee for themselves attorneys may be less inclined to go for outrageous settlements.

Imenid..I think that's an excellent idea..but it probably will never happen.

roxannekkb · Oct 21, 2004

The only way to control healthcare costs is to have a comprehensive package. As I have said, along with others who posted, simply putting a cap on settlements is not going to automatically make insurers lower their rates. As I see it, putting a cap on settlements without insurance reform is the sweetest deal possible for insurance companies. They get to continue raising their rates, or at least, keep them the same, while at the same time, dramatically decrease pay-outs.

We need to control pharmaceutical costs, the cost of a medical education (unless the military or a rich daddy pays for it, most docs come out of school about $100,000 in debt), and waste. We desperately need insurance reform. And we also need to reform our lawsuit happy culture. Measures such as responsibility for court costs whether you win or lose, or limiting the percentage that a lawyer can take as a fee. Or having lawsuits that go to court, decided upon by people educated in medicine ( a mixed panel of docs, nurses, etc, who are chosen by both sides). Having juries who know nothing about health or medicine is ludicrous. They almost always side with the plaintiff, because of the "heart tugs" and sob story. Even if that sob story was the plaintiff's fault, or no one's fault. I've seen parents sue over the birth of a baby with congenital anomalies, blaming the doctor and the NICU. Makes me want to gag.

Anyway, our system needs a total revamping if we want to lower costs.