BSN minimum requirement - page 2
It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year... Read More
Mar 5, '01A nurse is a nurse is like saying a doctor is a doctor. Get real, the one aspect that nursing really needs to pursue is specialization. The days of having a little knowledge about everything should be gone. Nursing should be specialized just as the physician community has done.
Mar 5, '01Hi,
I feel that many of the "posters" are missing the initial point. BSN as a point of entry to professional nursing. I feel that the four years needed to accomplish this feat weeds out alot of people. I also believe that nursing should be an apprentice field CNA LPN RN. Many other professionals go this route. Electricians, plumbers, etc. Do we deserve anything less???? TTFN Remember we are performing a service that is as important if not more important than the others.... Life or death....
Mar 5, '01This whole post is exactly whats wrng with nursing. Way to much bickering and fighting about who is better. It does not really matter we are all here to do a job, take care of patients and one of the big reasons we are not taken seriouly is because we are so poorly organized and are to busy fighhting among our selves to see the big picture, But thats what happens when you have a profession dominated by women. My post and that comment may offend some of you, however if you look at some of the posts on this site and talk to your collegues they will tell you the same thing. As far as the BSN thing goes it might help us be taken more seriously who knows it is only been being said for 30 odd years that it should be the entrance level and today the only state in which it is true is North Dakota. theres a promising future. It all comes down to this it willnever change ADN's and diploma nurses make up 64% of RN's so quit b***hing and if you don't like it move to North Dakota population roughly somewhere between 650,000 and 700,000. in contrast Michigan has 111,000 registered nurses
Mar 6, '01Bickering...B****ing?? I think not! Even though I totally disagreed with the original poster, I have enjoyed reading the posts that sprang from it. The following is a quote from one I truly enjoyed..."I do believe that BSN should be the level of entry for those reasons but mostly because it allows an individual nurse to easily walk forward from the bedside into other roles when (or if) she tires of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for"
This post validated my original post! "Allows the individual nurse to easily walk FORWARD FROM THE BEDSIDE into OTHER ROLES when(or if)she TIRES of the role that the ADN/diploma program so aptly prepares their students for" Now lets see if my uneducated tired old brain can grasp this concept. Now tell me if I get it wrong now. So the ADN/diploma programs aptly prepare their students for...umm now let me see here...nursing?? Hold on..I'll get it ...if those programs prepare them to nurse at the bedside...umm where does the BSN/MSN programs prepare you to work?? Hmmm..must NOT be at the bedside..eh? Now..let me go even further here...oooh this means really stretching my brain matter ...hold on...neurons are firing...HEY..I get it. Get you ADN....go on to get your BSN/MSN...so you DON'T have to work at the bedside anymore...is that it??? OOOhhh ok...so now...if having your BSN should be the entry level to nursing...and all the BSN as getting away from the bedside...and there are no other levels of nursing...ummm...now let me see here.....WHO IS AT THE BEDSIDE??
OOh don't tell me...IT's THE NEW GRADS!!! Now won't that increase superlative patient care. Yeah ...right!
Mar 6, '01Not to throw gas on the fire but...
I think this discussion as several others have noted illustrates the "class wars" in nursing at the present time. Experienced, competent and valuable diploma/ADN nurses are feeling threatened by the looming "requirement" of a BScN. Many feel this is unnecessary and unfair and in a lot of ways it is. Superficially it is an added expense for likely no benefit beyond what the additional education will bring you.
I think what the original poster was getting at is that it would be valuable to have a common base for nurses. This would go far to eliminate the "class wars" and promote unity and professionalism. By setting this mark at a university degree it somewhat raises the bar in terms of the profile of the profession. Most other professions with similar degrees of responsibility to nursing require a degree. This is not to say a degree is necessarily "better" than a college diploma. It has their merits and drawbacks. In my experience diploma nurses are definately originally better prepared for work on a floor due to their greater focus on clinicals. However this disparity is generally short lived. Again, everyone is different. Generalization of anyone based on their education is short-sighted and un-professional. I've seen plenty of diploma nurses pass the buck of bedpans and diaper changes...
The main benefit of a BScN at present is the ability to go beyond the floor nurse role. This is NOT a requirement but an option. To be an educator requires a mix of experience and education on education. In any other field, teachers need to be taught how to teach and nursing should be no different. Further education to be an educator is a good thing in my book.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Mar 6, '01I think that Brownms 46 hit it right on the head with that quote. Yes, I am an associate degree nurse. I felt very prepared with the education that I recieved. Our program has the best passing rate in the state (as I told) for boards. Which that both AD/BSN degrees still take at the same level. Why did I choose to take an AD over a BSN? The same reason I choose to be a CNA prior to becoming an RN. Which I think should be a bigger issue than making such a fuss of AD/BSN. That could "weed out" your bad nurses before they start, as one poster had mentioned about BSN taking longer so this could happen. Anyone who goes into nursing and thinks that someone else is going to do those basic cares for you patient is delusional. These days you have to count your lucky stars if you feel that the CNA working with you that is able to do vital signs correctly, or answer call lights,or not give you attitude because you asked them to do something that is completely within their job description. There are good CNA's out there don't get me wrong. Anyway, I just had to vent there. But I do still think that it is important to start at the bottom of nursing. Back to the issue of AD/BSN. I like to keep learning all the time. If I had gone ahead and completed my nursing degree at the university, where would I go from there? My MSN? By the time that I am fourty I will be completely at the top of the nursing chain? If I have to be in nursing for the next 40 years, I want to educate myself at my own pace and not because someone tells me I have to. What good is a nurse that doesn't challenge her/himself? This is happening to me now. I am not in school learning something new and I am completely bored with my life at the moment and I don't want to be. So in short, for those supporters of mandatory BSN, no one probably told you how to live your life or manage your career. So please don't tell us how to manage ours.
Mar 6, '01Hello, just my Two Cents worth here in this thread. I am a BSN prepared nurse, and proud of it, only for the fact that I made it through all 4 yrs.. ADN or BSN, Only reason I see BSN as being the preferred entry level into Nursing is for the continuity it would bring to the profession. Until we can ALL obtain the same amount of education for entry into Nursing, we will never be considered an "official profession". ADN nurses are fantastic, and I have worked with some who are the best, and would want them at my side any time. I only graduated in 1996 at 30 no less, so I am a recent nurse. I would like to see nursing considered a true profession, but until we all enter with the same amount of education it won't happen. Sad, because there are so many dynamic ADN nurses out there.
Just a thought..
Mar 6, '01Great ideas everyone! I am a Diploma (Hospital program) RN. I got a great education, and I am a spectacular bedside nurse, if I do say so myself. Higher education is an option that I am interested in, but I don't think that is the answer to joining us all as professionals.
The argument that if we had entry level BSN requirements we could all join as professionals is lame. We would probably all argue about what BSN progam is better! I think it is important that we all join to make nursing better for all nurses. How we are going to do that, I have no idea!
Mar 6, '01Originally posted by Lburns:
It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year program and will be finishing my BSN this semester. My school did a great job preparing me for "tasks" of nursing, but oh, it is so much more than that. Many other countries have moved or are moving towards 4yr degree minimums and the US needs to stay atop in this competative field. The nursing shortage will not always be here and it is to your advantage to get your degree now. The 2 yr programs will make a great footstep in the years to come, but the 4yr degree will become the RNs of the future. As nurses move into the 21st century we need to pull together to demonstrate our power as a profession, the only way to do this is to have strong, educated nurses in not just bedside tasks but critically thinking, politics, research and community health. Think about it, comments welcome.
Mar 6, '01I feel that a BSN should not be the minimum requirement for nursing. I am a ADN and I don't think that the intitials behind a person's signature are as important as giving good nursing care. With the ADN program I feel that I was well prepared to give that quality care without having to have 4 years of very expensive schooling behind me. I took the same board exam as a BSN and I passed it. Why do I need a background in music appreciation to give the patient good care? I also feel that having only an ADN has not hindered my opportunities in the nursing field.
Mar 6, '01Give me a bucket!!! You supposedly professional people sound like a bunch of children whining about who's education is better than who's, and which nurse is better than the next. While education is very important to ANY "profession", it is not the degree that makes the nurse. I know many ADN and Diploma prepared nurses who can run circles around the BSNs and MSNs, and vice versa. What really matters is the product that we are able to put out.....QUALITY, COMPETENT, and HUMANE ptient care. I have a Master's degree. I do not consider myself any better than an LPN, ADN, or BSN. I got a master's degree because I wanted to specialize. Aside from that, I think it is what we choose to do with our educations that makes or breaks us. This hoorah that i have been reading on this bulletin board today only serves to prove that we will never truly be a profession, no matter what the degree, until we stop bickering and fighting about who is better than whom, and acting like a bunch of badgers out to eat their young. Act like professionals for pete's sake.Originally posted by sheripa:
Thankyou, no one could say it better than what you have said. I graduated 8/99 from a HOSPITAL, YES A HOSPITAL SCHOOL OF NURSING. I always have to tell a BSN nurse what she has to do or help her to understand what is going on. I can't believe that you people have the nerve to sit and say that you are better than someone else because you have a BSN, MSN, PHD, or degree in IDIOT HEAD. This is why everyone wonders why nursing is in the up heavel it is in now. Because we as nurses want to be more than what we are. Glorified butt wipers. Yesss. That is all you are. Do you think that because you have more education in THIS particular field you are better than someone else. You are soo wrong. You need to be happy that the Heavenly Father blessed you enough to allow you to make it that far and even farther if HE chooses to allow you to. Just remember this, it's not where you started at but where you end up. Obviously, you all forgot where you came from.. Besides most of you wont step foot into a nursing home because this is beneath you also, so tell me, who is going to take care of them. Get over it. All you are doing is making a living. If you all want to see improvement in the profession that we are in than first you need to look at your self and know that you can't control nothing but you mouth and your actions. All of the different types of nursing are here to stay. At least for as long as you or I live, believe that. Also, no matter what you or anyone else says, I am a PROFESSIONAL. So quit, I can't believe that you a person who had to go on to get your BSN would say something like that. What you should be saying is "I wish I would have went straight for MY BSN instead of getting my ADN/Diploma", whatever it was that you got first. I can't beleive that we are in the same profession of caring for others because obviously you all are thinking of apperances only and what comes behind your name. Remember you never know everything that's why you had to go back to school. If I offended anyone, SO WHAT!!!!!!!! Because this is only for those who feel as though ADN, Diploma,and LPN's are beneath them. The Heavenly Father only knows what you think of CNA's. And for your information. I am currently obtaining my BSN just because I want to not to attempt at putting others down. Bye for now.
[This message has been edited by sheripa (edited March 05, 2001).]
Mar 6, '01"I also watched BSN come into the hospitals totally unprepared to function on the units, any units! And not only are they unable to function as well as 2yr RNs, they feel the basic nursing skills are beneath them! Give me a two or three yr. RN ANY day! I have watched these so-called "real" nurses ignore patient requests for bedpans, and really anything that might "dirty" those percious educationed hands of theirs! Yes two year RNs may dominate the field, but they are willing to do the work, and give the patients the care they desire! "
I have seen all degrees of nurses from all aspects of nursing give good care and bad care. There are prima donnas in every field but my point is to bring us together. Pt care is the focus but in the 21st century we need to push for education to be taken seriously and make policy changes that are best for the pt and for the nurse.
Mar 6, '01All aspects of my nursing career have made me a better nurse, including my full time job and my full time attending school. I never knew how much value there was in getting my BSN until I actually did it. I have become polically active and attune to health care in my community and to nursing overall. This information was never covered in the ADN program I attended because there wasnt' time. My point in this was never to put down ADN graduates but to elevate the practice of nursing to greater heights. We will never be taken seriously until we can be seen in the same light as other professions and in the ongoing technological growth we need nurses with 4 yr degrees. Nurses will be in far more demand than just the bedside. LB
Originally posted by swmn:
LBurns, I got just one wuestion for you. Are you a "better" nurse now because of your BSN program, because of the fulltime clinical experience you got in your day job, or is it becuase you were able to to apply the stuff you covered in class last night to your clinical challenge on the floor today?