ADN to BSN at Universities; problems?

oramar · Sep 11, 2001

First of all let me say good for you for sticking it out and reaching your goal inspite of the insults. I heard something like this from a advisor several years ago when I attempted to get my BSN. Got fed up and quit. The professors were not a problem, they could care less. However, each semester I had to go to this bipolar advisor who spent the first 10 to 20 min. of the session telling me how stupid I was. The thing that really stuck in my mind was that business about my inability to assess patients because of my ADN. My assessment skills are excellent and are a source of pride to me. I recognized right away that she was having psycological problems. Probably had always been neurotic and memopause was pushing her over the edge. There was something about her wild personal appearance that made me suspect she was bipolar. (All this from a person who has no assessment skills) There was a certain rhetoric she was using that I have heard and on several other occasions. I now suspect that the accademics passed this around among themselves parroting it back and forth without a clue about the harm they are doing. I just saw a professor on TV, a woman with a Phd in nursing plus a lot of common sense. She said this very thing, that the nation wide attempt to promote the BSN had been derailed by derogatory rhetoric. She warned all the academics in the audience not to go there, that these sort of verbal insults were passe'. So what I am saying is that the people that gave you those negative vibes were the stupid ones. You are the smart one for not being derailed by their remarks.

nightingale, RN · Sep 11, 2001

Andy:

I too am very glad you stuck it out... Congradulations!

I just graduated from a RN to BSN program in May. We were lucky in that we were kept separate from the "regualr BSN" students and clinical staff (sounds like a good idea from your post).

It sounds like you had a nut case of a instructor. It takes all kinds and yes, nursing school has its' share of mental cases.

I too am VERY proud of what I learned as an ADN. MY assessment skills far outweighed what I would have been exposed to had I just did the BSN program up front. One of my favorite colleagues, who is now a DON, strongly prefers nurses from the ADN program because their skills are stronger then the local BSN program nurses (they concentrate on this at the community college I attended rather then the theoretical classes of the BSN program and have strong "hands on" experience).

I enjoyed my BSN program and my family is so proud of my accomplishments. I proudly wear my BSN pin and regulary get feedback about it (not all positive, as you can guess from ADN or Diploma nurses, who ask "Why do you need that?").

United we stand to work together for the cause of being the best we can be. We share in the common good of caring for our fellow man in the best way that we can equipt ourselves.

If we all had the same dreams what a boring world this would be.

In peace,

Bonnie :)

Andy S., BSN, RN · Sep 12, 2001

thanks you guys, you rock!

Andy

MollyJ · Sep 12, 2001

Hi Andy,

I am a diploma nurse, BSN, MSN who did a BSN completion at a university.

This is my pet theory. I think that one of the tasks of a BSN completion is dealing somehow with your anger over second-class citizenry, subtle denigration of your first credential [in and out of school] and YOUR OWN anger at "having to get the 'right' credential." My program started your nursing content with a "bridge" program, where you transitioned into their program, learned how to write a care plan their style and learned about their theorist on which the program was based. Our prof was wise enough to let us vent. Eventually, she told us that one of her beliefs was that the BSN held over the dipoma and ADN the advantage of letting you easily walk forward into new endeavors (ie a MSN, CRNA, ARNP program). That resonated with many of us, since quite a few of us were there for that very reason. Over all, I think the anger generated by the multiple entry levels is one of the costs of multiple entry levels.

I still question for myself how much of the denigration I felt by other nurses was my own projected anger over not having the "right" credential.

Any how, it's been more than 10 years since my BSN completion and 5 since my MSN. My diploma program made me a nurse and formed some fundamental views of nursing. My BSN program vastly broadened my perspectives and helped me see care situations more differently. I think I am a more flexible thinker and in new or challenging situations, I fall back to principles, theories and my experiences.

I have always felt sorry for people who said their BSN completion was "just a piece of paper." Which no one here has said. But mine wasn't. My BSN program did a good job of recognizing our experience and, like another poster, we didn't mix with generic students until Community Health and then we had clinicals that were selected to reflect our advanced experience. But my BSN did enhance my practice, I believe.

And I found it unbelievably fun to go to school with RN colleagues who were excited about nursing. I got a window in on different instiitutions, different fields of nursing from excited and often excellent practitioners.

Congrats on nearing the end.

oramar · Sep 12, 2001

Do you hear what you just said? You said that some professor with chalk in her hand and her notes before came up with some half baked theory. Where is the science? Excuse me everybody for going on about such trivial matters when the world is on fire. I have spent my life dealing with life and death and I actually do know what is important.

BrandyBSN · Sep 12, 2001

Are you objecting to nursing Theories?

JMP · Sep 12, 2001

brandy-

HUHH?

nightingale, RN · Sep 12, 2001

Wonderful post! Molly, your post is right on! In our own sensitivity we are hurt but what is real. You said it with such sensitivity... thank you...

Andy, I had an interesting interaction that I thought I would share with you:

Our graduating class was excluded in the group picture that goes "on the wall". I do not think the exclusion was necessarily deliberate. I went the the "other BSN students" (non RN to BSN students) and told them how important it was to myself and a few others to be "on the wall". The reaction I received was VERY mixed. It ranged from apologies to open hostility of not wanting US included with THEM.

To get to the short of it; We came to a satisfactory outcome (we had a separate group picture and we were included with the indivdiual group picture "on the wall"). The important part of this interaction was we began to communicate as a cohesive group. A handful of the regualr BSN students and some of the RN to BSN students began to make joint decisions and were able to rejoice in the glory of finishing our programs.

All the above would not have taken place if we had not made a concerted effort to jointly make decisions. The effort had to be made and then "it happened". Granted, not all the students agreed, but the cream rose to the top and a positive outcome emerged and we were ALL made the better for it.

I ended up being the class speaker for the RN to BSN graduauting student body. It was a very proud moment for myself and my family. My topic was "Who We Are". It was our moment in time to "brag" about ourselves and tell the audience how we were different as RN to BSN graduates. We were able to boast a power lifter nurse who started on her course work back in "76". We had many students with wonderful and unique stories who had much to proud of and many overcoame unique obstacles and triumphed while holding down full time nursing professions.

Andy, it does sound like you are truly making the best of your experience. I tip my hat off to you in pursuing your dreams.

In peace.... :)

Dave123 · Sep 12, 2001

IMHO, I feel that if a BSN is what "you" want then pursue it. If MSN is "your" goal then pursue it. But in doing so do not forget that there is no BSN/MSN NCLEX only a RN NCLEX.

I am an ADN RN but this was not my first or even my second degree. So for those that feel that somehow by having a BSN/MSN makes you a better nurse, you have been in the class too long and need a refresher at the bedside. Theory is great, but that is all it is, theory. I feel that as an ADN my skills, knowledge, and experience are much better than those more highly educated because my education has never ended and daily I look something up, read, and ask questions, then I apply it to actually doing the job.

Please do not let a biased program or instructor deter your goals or dreams. Something that I was told a long time ago and I believe holds much truth: "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach."

It is issues such as these where nurses are so divided that have made me begin applying to P.A. Programs over pursuing a NP course.

Just my opinion

suzannasue · Sep 12, 2001

Brandy,

I have never seen a "nursing theory" that could help me at the bedside. Theorists depend on paper shuffling and statistics. I depend on my nursing skills and my ability to to relate to the humanity of the person lying in that bed...not some abstract that will eventually mean more paperwork for me and my co-workers. Alas...once again a point of division among us.

... I CHOOSE to stay at the bedside where I can make a difference, not in a library....have never held the hand of a book.

Have seen way too many advanced degree nurses forget that nursing is a humanity and forget that they are nurses...capable of relieving the bedside nurses of mandated overtime.

By the way,Brandy, I have visited your website and think you are wonderfully refreshing and very brave for posting your journal. Holy moly...mine would be quite intersting if not mind boggling!!!!

Take care all !!!!!

UNITED WE STAND,DIVIDED WE FALL...

PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BrandyBSN · Sep 12, 2001

My university uses Jean Watson's Carative Factor Theory. Personally, I really dont understand how it applies to bedside nursing for the most part, accept that it explains ways to be "present" with patients. Most of us can be present with our patients, even if we dont have a particular theory in mind.

The only real use I can see for the theory is that it gives a base for what they "ideally" want us to gain from our program, and incorps our liberal arts and sciences education as well, but I dont think that is really applies in practice. Just one more thing they can require us to memorize, and test us over.

They told us when we were freshman, that we had to memorize the theory, and be able to quote it, i am now a senior, and have yet to memorize it, much less apply a majority of it.

I am not against nursing programs having a theory based educational program, i just wish it was more practical to apply. But I do agree, it doesnt add much at the bedside.

And thanks about the journal, I seem to have to remain so "politically correct" on the bulletin boards here, so my journal is the place where I can just be me :)

BrandyBSN