A Comparison BSN versus ADN Faculty Role - page 3

Indispensable qualities that one needs to be credible and successful in the nurse educator role include empathy, genuineness, enthusiasm, expertise, strong student advocacy skills, a lifelong... Read More

  1. Visit  MMorton profile page
    1
    Many times failing the nurse is not a loss to the community, but a good service. Not everyone is cut out to be nurses. Nurses can fail for not taking responsibility, not being prepared, not being safe and for poor grades. As nurses, we would not want to work with another nurse that is a danger to her patients or to the facility. We owe that much to the community. My LPN program was very rigorous and many times the clinical instructor was absolutely hateful. No instructor should behave this way. It would make a good study to see the student perception of the LPN, ADN and BSN. My ADN was a breeze compared to the LPN. The rumor is that the PhD program in our area is hateful and nasty to the nurses. I do think hatefulness is totally uncalled for. We should be role modeling the behaviors we want our students to repeat. Great idea for the study. Maybe I will do it sometime. (When I have some free time)
    VickyRN likes this.
  2. Visit  rnmomtobe2010 profile page
    0
    Thank you for this information. You are not the first person I have heard this from. I know now that ADN programs are more intense. My question is... why?
  3. Visit  Tweety profile page
    1
    My ADN program was intense, but out of 60 of us, none were weeded out. Absolutely none. We graduated 62 because two LPNs joined un the 2nd year. I don't think it's necessary to weed out students. Just present the material, teach it well, and those who can't make it aren't going to make it.
    VickyRN likes this.
  4. Visit  SmilingBluEyes profile page
    1
    My AD program weeded out more than 1/2. It was rigorous, tiresome, like basic training for two years (and I did that, too as a military recruit!!) And, always, endless mindgames played by the majority of instructors. It was ridiculous.

    All the BSN nurses I spoke to, none had a story like this. They were treated like the adult learners they were, with one exception. The RN-BSN bridge program I had started. What a nightmare. It was like the AD program all over again. And a lot of the old party line of "the only professional nurses are BSN graduates" over and over again. I found it unnecessary and insulting. And I did not like the way the professors lectured people arriving (quietly) late to class. They were adults, for heaven's sake. This sounds petty, but after 2 years of that, I was not ready for another intense year more of the same thing.....

    I actually remember the night after pinning, feeling such relief I was done. I felt 1000 lbs off my shoulders; it was hard to believe I had actually made it. The elation was unreal--- and like Hellllo, I have a bad taste in my mouth of that program, 10 years later after graduation. I felt like some people came away with a mild form of PTSD, almost. And sadly, many are not even practicing today. I guess the AD instructors felt "justified" in their treatment of us, in the way of "preparing" us for the "real" world of dog-eat-dog nursing. I can see how they would feel that way. But it was not an environment too conducive to productive learning, IMHO.

    But overall, I would say, observing unscientifically, the BSN graduates were every bit as well-prepared clinically and professionally as we were----without all the drill sergeant treatment and horrendous attrition rates! How I wish I had lived closer to the nearest Uni offering a generic BSN in the first place. I am now finally in a place where I am considering an Online RN-BSN or MSN program. I think that is probably the right way for me to go....

    Great article, Vicky. Well thought-out and articulate!
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Dec 1, '07
    VickyRN likes this.
  5. Visit  rcaega profile page
    2
    Vicky,
    I feel that your article left something to be desired.
    You carefully left out dialogue concerning a comparison of how professionally prepared you felt one degree candidate was over another. I found that interesting. Traditionally, ADN graduates do better than their peers, the BSN graduates, on NCLEX testing. This would suggest that the weeding out process experienced thru ADN programs might be somewhat effective. Still, the manner in which this is achieved is arguably inappropriate. While your BSN program introduces nursing in the third year of a Bacculaureate program, many schools start from the beginning. Hence, much information necessary to test appropriately and to effectively nurse are forgotten. It should be noted that most ADN programs require from one to two years of prerequisite course completion inorder to be considered for a spot in a nursing degree program. Further, while BSN grads spend the same amount of time clinically, it has been my experience that ADN grads have a better grasp of the Nursing process and are better prepared for bedside nursing where BSN grads are better prepared for management nursing. That "boot camp" process that many nursing grads talk about allows instructors an ability to give their students an opportunity to use their minds in a new way. What we need is a blend of these concepts, not two opposed programs that offer their own built-in limitations. I was disappointed that you, as a professional instructor, either didn't point this out or maybe you haven't recognized it yet. Maybe we need to look farther in our past when three year Diploma Nursing programs not only stressed the techinical side of nursing but allowed time for leadership.
    allbright1 and VickyRN like this.
  6. Visit  pengoo2008 profile page
    1
    Very interesting!

    I think there is some level of inappropriate treatment that goes on in my BSN program but it is not widespread and has been contained to a few cases. Most of which were brought to our directors attention and then resolved.

    The one thing I do notice is that the "adult" vs. "college" students get treated somewhat differently. If you are a typical college student (ie 20ish years old) you are reprimanded for being a minute late, for "complaining" (questioning things) and things of that nature more than if you are an "adult" (ie 30 years or older). But that is just my program personally. Overall, I think all the students are treated pretty well and the vast majority of profs and instructors try very, very hard to be fair.
    VickyRN likes this.
  7. Visit  euvfets profile page
    1
    Vicky, thanks for great article! Wonderful insight!
    VickyRN likes this.
  8. Visit  allbright1 profile page
    0
    VickyRN,

    I am a graduate student working on my Master in Health Administration with emphasis on Education and have been researching the difference in pay for nurse educators and staff nurses. I am curious as to your thoughts about why there is such a difference in pay when you as a clinical educator are responsible for the actions of each of your students just as the staff RN is responsible for the actions of her LPN and/or CNA. I also believe that the nursing shortage is directly related to the shortage of nurse educators, what are your thoughts about this correlation?
  9. Visit  greymatter profile page
    0
    I currently work for a Diploma RN program, that has emphasizes retention ie tutor and counselors available. Our graduates are sought out by local hospitals due to their first rate clinical skills. The school is changing into a BSN program, within the next year or so. Has anyone else survived this metamorphisis? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.:icon_roll
  10. Visit  VickyRN profile page
    0
    Quote from allbright1
    VickyRN,

    I am a graduate student working on my Master in Health Administration with emphasis on Education and have been researching the difference in pay for nurse educators and staff nurses. I am curious as to your thoughts about why there is such a difference in pay when you as a clinical educator are responsible for the actions of each of your students just as the staff RN is responsible for the actions of her LPN and/or CNA. I also believe that the nursing shortage is directly related to the shortage of nurse educators, what are your thoughts about this correlation?
    I agree. And it's not getting any better in this bleak economy. Monies just aren't available to give faculty the raises they deserve. The relatively low salaries serve as a formidable barrier to recruiting new nurse faculty. And now, not only faculty, but regular nurse salaries are being called into question: http://allnurses.com/nursing-news/re...ng-360710.html Truly, challenging times for nursing lie ahead.


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