"Men should be EMT's or Doctors!"

[Antikigirl]

So our floor had this little old lady who was basically your general pain in the keester. Declined meds, treatments, tests...and was needy as all get go but no one could satisfy her. Very bold woman who likes things her way...and no other..family was the same and catered to her every whim...which didn't help us out at all! It was like she was on respite not being treated for a medical probelm!

We have this wonderful male nurse who is kind and very realistic when it comes to women having a probelm with male nurses during certain things (like bathing, cath, tolieting, etc.) and we always help him out in those cases. Well...I guess this woman read him the riot act saying that males should NEVER be nurses, they should get a set of testies and be a EMT or Doctor! Then she excused him from the room saying to never even step towards the door...this was just seconds after he introduced himself!!!!

I was furious!!!!! Here is this lady who actually is about 90 and was an editor for a major newspaper and she is being sexist??? Okay I think when she was trying for editor she had her share of sexism in her day!!! I was just so peved!

I took over care for her because she liked me quite a bit...and I had a little talk with her. I told her that I knew her son was an EMT, and my hubby is a paramedic. That I know that many EMT's and paramedics would like to switch to RN because of the pay, and actually getting to know a patient for more than 5-15 minutes in a screaming ambulance. Because of HIPAA they are not 'in the know' about their patients once they transfer care...so they stablize some of the worse things and never get to hear an outcome! So nursing can be quite nice because you can see what happens beyond the ER doors! I also reminded her and had her share stories of how it was like being a female editor....after that is sunk in to her what she had done, and she felt very sorry..but remained bull headed about not letting him in.

I think I did well...I knew this lady wouldn't respond to anything to put her defenses up, so I had to be patient and make her think of the reasons why she said what she did, and HERSELF come to the conclusion with a little proding from me that it was very insensitive and wrong.

I then talked to the nurse and we had a good laugh and he was fine, and then we both went to the charge nurse and wrote an incident report for verbal abuse and sexism towards the nurse. I felt that was right to do since you shouldn't ever treat a professional that only wants to help you (even if you are a pain in the keester big time) get well!

Basically I really made him see things in the right perspective by just saying "it really doesn't matter with her or some people what sex or color you are...they just want to make you miserable for some reason...just the lazy ones with no creativity choose sex or color because it is easier than actually getting to know a person! Plus hon...I think if she said anything positive or even smiled her head would cave in from the pressure! LOL!!!!".

Don't let the turkeys get ya down folks...

[Demonsthenes]

When I went to Texas Womans University Nursing School in Dallas, two of my nursing instructors failed me stating that " I would make an excellent doctor but a poor nurse." I have a B.S. in Biochemistry and am a Certified Legal Assistant.Also,in a large class at Texas Womans University, in an auditorium full of at least 100 nursing students, an R.N. instructor at that same school stated: "Good nurses do not make good doctors and good doctors do not make good nurses." After she stated this all of the nursing students smiled and noded their heads in approval. I just sat their amazed at the blatant sexism openly voiced. Now, I have come to realized that my two instructors and the one in the large class room were not only openly voicing their sexist prejudices but, also, voicing their opinion with regard to the stereotyped socio-cultural class of nurses. That is, good nurses should be female and from working class back grounds (remember, at one time women from upper middle and upper class back grounds were not allowed in nursing. It was a profession considered beneath them). Good doctors should be male and from upper class or upper middle class back grounds. I am a male from an upper middle or upper class back ground. Therefore, my instructors thought it was inappropriate for me to be a nurse but that I would make a good doctor. In my career as an R.N., I have found this socio-cultural stereotyping as much as a cause of discrimination as my gender.

I hope our legislators take some action to protect male nurses from discrimination, something which that have refused to do.

[tvccrn, ASN, RN]

That's a bit harsh. Why not show respect regardless of whether you receive it or not? We don't need to lower ourselves to their level.

I was brought up that you don't automatically get respect, you EARN it. Therefore, by some reckoning, I don't have to respect her because that's the way I am.

tvccrn

[DusktilDawn]

I was brought up that you don't automatically get respect, you EARN it. Therefore, by some reckoning, I don't have to respect her because that's the way I am.

tvccrn

I was also raised with this saying, however I disagree with it.

If you want to get respect, you have to be respectful.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

On the topic of respect, I would modestly propose that we are all born with a right to be respected, but some of us forfeit that right through our conduct.

Even so, I think Triage handled the situation as well as it could be.

An old saying I grew up with is "Don't get in a p***ing contest with a skunk."

[Antikigirl, ASN, RN]

An old saying I grew up with is "Don't get in a p***ing contest with a skunk."

Sorry but I love that phrase! LOL!!!!!!!! Never heard it before!

I didn't mean for this to be a respect an elder vs not. I actually respected the lady for her life and her spirit, but didn't respect her social attributes at this time. However, I can see how she may not be at her best being in a hospital and not having control. That is why we have nursing Dx of powerlessness, hopelessness. For some people even the tiniest loss in that triggers an over reaction of coping mechs to gain control again.

Lets take a look here, the lady fell...broke her hip. What do most of our patients feel about that when they are in their 70's-90's...they think it is basically the end of life as they know it. They know they will need to go to a home and loose their rights of liberty to do as they please, and some basically give up. I can see that with this woman.

However, there is a point where compassion and understanding must lend itself to helping the patient. This patient was not helping herself by refusing care, and refusing care from certain people no matter what her excuses or thoughts were. When she goes to a home facility, they are not as staffed as to allow for a switch in care as a hospital may be...she will need to accept care, accept help from people...this is going to be her next hurdle in life. That or she really needs to change her status to DNR (she refused all care in our hospital...no tests, no meds...).

I fear that her independance is going to hurt her in more ways that imagained. It is going to make her last years miserable..and she doesn't deserve that in my book. She just needs to take a step back and overcome the anger and denial of the situation and see it in a realistic fashion, if not be proactive about it (and reasonably proactive).

I respect my elders, but at times I see the parts of the healthcare system that can bump horns with people being bull headed. I try to help them avoid that so they can lead happy lives like they deserve and not make it miserable via unwillingness or denial to change when their bodies do.

And as far as folks that either let elderly do whatever they want, vs people that get angry at it...that is why I love my career, different strokes for different folks and not one patient is the same. Somedays you get to be the 'good cop' and others 'the bad cop' scenero...and through working together...it usually pans out just fine :). She needed a bad cop first (which wound up being a EKG tech)..then a good cop in order to listen and think (yeah I got to be the good cop for once! LOL!).

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

I guess if someone's behavior is bizarre or disrespectful, I'd rather concentrate on the 'why' of the matter than respond in a knee-jerk ego fashion. I also wouldn't automatically lose respect for the person. My comment "but by the grace of G-d" was referring to the fact that any of us put in extreme situations or stress with illness could act in ways we could never imagine or fathom.

Once when I was in the hospital, years ago, I acted in a manner that I still cringe at to remember. I was admitted for pain control following a surgery that I found traumatic for personal reasons. I'm sure it looked routine to my nurse. Anyway, I wasn't coping and I was disinhibited by the narcotics. So I said some abusive things and I was inappropriate. Extremely out of character for me. If I hadn't had this personal experience I probably wouldn't have such a permissive attitude. I just know that I wasn't operating very highly on Maslow's hierarchy during that hospital stay and it pushed me to say things I find shocking.

I wish my nurse would have responded with an autonomous view. I wish she would have questioned "why is this patient doing this? Does she need a psychologist to assess her, or a social worker to talk about coping skills? What is really going on?" Instead my nurse got angry with me (in a veiled manner) and made it clear that I was being discharged and not a minute too soon. I needed help and she shamed me.

Since I'm only a student I'll leave it at that. I'm mindful that my views may change after I graduate. Or not. I'm mindful that it's easier to talk about these things in an academic way rather than actually doing them. I'll probably be more permissive of behavioral problems with patients than some of my co-workers simply because of this personal experience. If that never happened to me, I might be saying the same things as some of you are.

[ryanfocker]

I look at things a little differently

At 90 years old, she should be allowed to feel what ever way she wants to feel. By God she has earned that right.She has served her time, paid her dues,and who knows what factors she faced while achieving her 90 years.

This world is big enough for all types, even me

Let the Democrats regain control, please Lord

she is certainly "allowed" to feel how ever she wants. however, her "feelings" are biggoted, no matter how long she spent on earth. this is biggotry, plain and simple. replace the word "male" with "jew" or "black"; and it would be clear that this woman is a biggot.

[ryanfocker]

i feel that when patients consent to care, there should be some sort of clause that excludes from the pt the right to pick caregivers based on race, religion, creed, gender, and age.

just as a healthcare employee ought not have the right to reject a pt based on those same criteria.

as a pt, you came to the hospital knowing the staff at the hospital contain the knowledge, ability, and materials to return you to a state of better health.

pts come to hospitals and sign themselves over to the "experts". certainly, one can reject the care of an incomptent care giver, or a care giver that is dangerous, or a treatment they do not agree is beneficial. but race, religion, creed, age, and gender have to part in these standards.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

i feel that when patients consent to care, there should be some sort of clause that excludes from the pt the right to pick caregivers based on race, religion, creed, gender, and age.

just as a healthcare employee ought not have the right to reject a pt based on those same criteria.

as a pt, you came to the hospital knowing the staff at the hospital contain the knowledge, ability, and materials to return you to a state of better health.

pts come to hospitals and sign themselves over to the "experts". certainly, one can reject the care of an incomptent care giver, or a care giver that is dangerous, or a treatment they do not agree is beneficial. but race, religion, creed, age, and gender have to part in these standards.

How would the above apply to Muslim patients who object to the opposite sex providing care?

Also, why would you want to take care of a patient who objects to having you as a nurse? I am speaking of religious objections and otherwise. Giving in to the patient's objection doesn't validate their unethical/ignorant or religious view. It just says you aren't going to have two uncomfortable people. The patient and the nurse.

[Antikigirl, ASN, RN]

I have actually provided for a muslim patient that couldn't have me be his nurse and needed a very complex dressing change post vein harvest x4!

What I did was to get his wife to assist the patients brother in the sterile dressing technique! I got the brother to take a few lessons from me in sterile technique and what he was doing and why (and he excelled at it!!!! WOW, he was even better and caught on faster than even I did when I was learning it!). Then I stood right inside the door with my back turned to the patient in case he had questions. The wife also was educated and assisted him if he needed something opened or whatever. It worked out great and the patient was very happy that I helped instead of forcing something on him or not doing anything at all!

I also provided them with a room facing East for their prayers (the patients family..he did a special prayer in bed that was okayed by his religious officiate.

There are ways to get around these issues and still provide the patient what they need and gain respect for those of us providing the help . Yes it can be a pain in the keester sometimes...but being creative is my favorite, and so far it has paid off wonderfully!

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

I have actually provided for a muslim patient that couldn't have me be his nurse and needed a very complex dressing change post vein harvest x4!

What I did was to get his wife to assist the patients brother in the sterile dressing technique! I got the brother to take a few lessons from me in sterile technique and what he was doing and why (and he excelled at it!!!! WOW, he was even better and caught on faster than even I did when I was learning it!). Then I stood right inside the door with my back turned to the patient in case he had questions. The wife also was educated and assisted him if he needed something opened or whatever. It worked out great and the patient was very happy that I helped instead of forcing something on him or not doing anything at all!

I also provided them with a room facing East for their prayers (the patients family..he did a special prayer in bed that was okayed by his religious officiate.

There are ways to get around these issues and still provide the patient what they need and gain respect for those of us providing the help . Yes it can be a pain in the keester sometimes...but being creative is my favorite, and so far it has paid off wonderfully!

You are fantastic!

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

Here's an interesting APA article regarding the ethics of dealing with biggoted patients:

http://www.apa.udel.edu/apa/archive/newsletters/v97n2/medicine/quality.asp