Flight Nurse vs Flight Paramedic - page 3
Hello all, Until the other day, I had no idea there was a such thing as a flight paramedic. I thought all of them were flight nurses. What are the differences in pay and training of a flight... Read More
Aug 6, '09Having EMT experience and nursing school is not equivalent to paramedic school. While a RN may be considered higher medical licensure in your neck of the woods, that is simply not the case in other areas of the country. In New Mexico for example, the paramedic is a licensed profession much like nurses. In addition, some states require RN's to obtain paramedic credentials before they can work in the EMS or transport environment.
In addition, any flight company worth anything will recognize what each provider brings to the table. Giving the RN ultimate authority is potentially dangerous IMHO. Both team members must know when to take the lead or take a supportive role. Creating an environment that prohibits a provider from applying their specialized skill set is a recipe for disaster.
IMHO as always.
Aug 6, '09And that is precisely why California RNs have higher reciprocity than those of other states. Other states may require additional schooling, testing, or licensure, but an ADN RN from California is able to work in a much more broad region than RNs from other states.
AND there are other states that have the same as California RNs. To my knowledge, California and some other states have the highest standard of Nursing.
I do indeed believe that having as many years of EMT experience as I have and getting my RN does surpass the expertise of most Paramedics that I know, not to mention the higher medical authority.
Bottom line is, there are two different territories, the field and the hospital, and each has their own specialty, but the RN is the higher medical authority, at least California RNs are and they are held to the highest standard, along with a few other states.
Aug 6, '09Might I just add one more thing. Also, with ambulance companies, which I have many years of experience with, if a patient needs a higher level of care, the MD requires an RN, if the patient is not as critical as to need an RN, a Paramedic is requested.
RNs can also extend their scope and licensure to the field as MICNs, CCRNs, as well as others. These specialties prepare RNs even more for what they face in the field. Some companies may request these credentials and others do not. I am unaware of an expanded scope of practice for Paramedics like they have for RNs in California.
Aug 6, '09Absolutely disagree. I have many years of EMS and flight experience under my belt along with the typical alphabet soup and I do not consider my self the medical authority. You are sorely mistaken in thinking your experience is better than a paramedic. In addition, with few exceptions, ( online courses ) RN reciprocity is fairly easy. I was not educated California, and have had not problems with reciprocity. I have never been told that California has superior education when compared to other states. Does the NLN have a special California nursing school credential?
While undereducated shake and bake paramedic courses still exist, many of the old standards are going away. This is especially true in light of the EMS SOP changes. In fact the technician has been removed from the paramedic title and soon all PM national standard courses will require certification.
While things may work one way in your area, do not assume this is a national standard.
Aug 6, '09I never made any assumptions about National Standards. Even EMT-Basics know of differences between states and regions.
Also, I never denied that Paramedics are licensed professionals just as RNs and they should be treated as such.
But, as I lack the energy to continue this conversation, I will simply say that I disagree when it comes to RNs within the state of California. RNs within California are the medical authority over Paramedics.
Aug 6, '09CCRN is an ICU RN credential. While it is a difficult exam and a great achievment, it does not prepare the RN for the EMS or transport environment. Paramedics in fact do have an exam that tests their critical care transport knowledge. It is called FP-C. In addition, a CCT ground credential has finihed beta testing. The FP-C is a very difficult exam that is a mirror of the CFRN.
Aug 6, '09I understand what the CCRN credential entails and how it can be obtained by gaining experience working in the ICU or the ER for certain amount of time along with an exam to pass. I feel that it does prepare the RN for the more critical patients that may be encountered in the field.
And that is good to hear that the Paramedic has extended scopes/specialties, but I believe that they are still limited.
Also, just to mention, I will be getting my Paramedic after I achieve RN. I have conducted much research in these concepts as far as California goes.
I respect your feelings and the workings of your state however.
Aug 7, '09Also, to whomever it may concern, the California EMSA requirements for an RN to become a Paramedic simply requires a confirmation in skills and a 40 ALS Patient Contact internship. It takes more for a Paramedic to become a RN.
Aug 7, '09Quote from Matt O. EMT, ETC, SNPoint being? Take care of 40 patients and drop a few tubes in Fred the head and you are ready to hit the streets? I had a 160 hour didactic flight orientation followed by EMS field rotations and a hospital rotation where we had to spend time in the OR intubating. Then, I had to work 240 hours of precepted flight shifts where a flight medic preceptor evaluated every flight. After all of that, I still did was not on par with our experienced flight medics.Also, to whomever it may concern, the California EMSA requirements for an RN to become a Paramedic simply requires a confirmation in skills and a 40 ALS Patient Contact internship. It takes more for a Paramedic to become a RN.
Aug 7, '09WOW! I've seen this before, but it never gets any less amusing (or amazing).
Hey there Matt O - thanks for the "explanation" of your authority and position on teamwork and clinical standing, it sure taught me a few things. I was really moved when you detailed out the California system as the "highest" in the land - and to think that everyone else is in the sucky land of the lost.
Come on man, are you a troll or trying to stir the pot or what? I may be a bit dry of humor, jaded on a bad day and occasionally sarcastic in a funny way - but you REALLY seem to believe what you have posted.
Well all I can say is --- ROCK ON! You are so going to be the best nurse to ever fly. I'll even bet that when you enter a crowd, a hush will follow and then all with breathlessly wait for you to speak from your position of AUTHORITY! As for your experience - I'd expect for all the flight companies to fight for you - I'd even expect that a bidding war may develop! Good times are coming!!
Actually, I'm not gonna keep busting on you - it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. At least I will never have to work with you - you won't last long enough to even know that you don't know.
Aug 7, '09Oh please, I never claimed to be high and mighty, and I never said that I had any AUTHORITY whatsoever. I simply stated that, in California, RNs are the medical authority over paramedics. Simple as that.
I know how California works and have researched the reciprocity details and information about other states. Now, if you would calm down and read what I actually wrote, you will see that I did not place California above all of the other states, only some, as statistics show.
I never claimed to be an expert on other states, I clearly stated that I only knew about California, and I do know what I am talking about when it comes to my area of the world. I wouldnt expect you to though unless you lived here.
You can take your sarcasm and shove it.
Aug 7, '09Quote from GilaRNAnd GilaRN, please do not think that im comparing a new grad RN/Paramedic to an experienced/seasoned Paramedic. A seasoned Paramedic will always have a higher level of knowledge over new grads. I was simply comparing new grad to new grad. And I realize that Paramedic School provides ride-outs and such prior to graduation, so an RN would NOT have this experience. I was simply comparing medical knowledge, definitely not experience.Point being? Take care of 40 patients and drop a few tubes in Fred the head and you are ready to hit the streets? I had a 160 hour didactic flight orientation followed by EMS field rotations and a hospital rotation where we had to spend time in the OR intubating. Then, I had to work 240 hours of precepted flight shifts where a flight medic preceptor evaluated every flight. After all of that, I still did was not on par with our experienced flight medics.
Im really not trying to stir the pot or anything. Like I said, once I finish RN school, I want to finish the Paramedic internship and get my EMT-P license. I wish to be a Flight RN/EMT-P as well. I only wrote on this dumb thread to clarify what I knew and be clarified myself for the things I did not know about it.
I apologize if I offended anyone. - Except the sarcasm thing by certain people, just rude.....why not have an adult conversation with me and explain what you know?Last edit by Matt,RN on Aug 7, '09
Aug 7, '09No worries, we are having an adult conversation. This is nothing personal, nor have I attacked you personally. In addition, I post on SDN, therefore it is safe to say my heart is nowhere near my sleeve. So, let's compare a new grad RN to a new grad PM. To have a truly comprable scenario we should have a comprable level of entry level education. The AAS level of education should do nicely.
AAS degree will have the PM and RN take nearly identical pre-requisite courses, therefore, no difference in foundational knowledge. Let's take the core program. RN clinical experience is somewhere less than 1,000 hours. Same with the PM. Didactic knowledge is going to be ~ equal. So, a fairly comprable process.
While the RN focus is in the hospital and PM focus is pre-hospital, I fail to see how a new grad RN could be considered the medical authority in every situation even when compared to a new grad PM as you seem to suggest.