New Grads!!! There IS a way to SURVIVE!! - page 3

by LadyFree28

9,132 Views | 27 Comments

I have started a thread based on an off shoot if solutions to help create a marketplace for new Grads. I was on a 12-year plan en route to my BSN....from failing ADN school at 19 due to a cyclothymia trait and test anxiety,... Read More


  1. 3
    Quote from Nightingallow
    Good for you plumbtrician! I applaud your honesty and your humility. It's good you took the initiative to travel outside your safety zone. I would love if this thread displayed all of our talents so that we could make peace with each other. If you think about it, we are competting against each other to take care of other people! This shows you what kind of people us nurses are. "I want to help" "No I want to help"

    I personally hate mud slinging...

    I wish there was a way to have new grads and want to be retires but can't afford to retire come up with a solution that is very beneficial to all of us. I dunno, something like having the experienced nurse as the official hospital nurse perceptor, whose job is to teach 10 externs and not have the insane other responsibilities on top of this, and have a great salary on top of this hopefully (it's the least that can be done, because this program could save the hospital money down the line from bad apple investments). Maybe the $ could come from the cuts that the hospitals received from decreased patient satisfaction ratings.

    This could be a pilot program, maybe 4 to 8 patients per 10 externs. The other patients are the other staffs responsibility (they will be helped out because they will each have 2-4 less patients, and we have to figure out how to protect these nurses from getting the boot too!). At the end of the program, she/he could let go the whiny new grads who wear heels to clinical and replace them with the other ones waiting. Of course there will be a lot of competition..

    maybe this might be a horrible idea because the unassertive students may be great nurses but not competitive..also a lot of room for abuse....Help me out here. This is a brainstorm.

    Not trying to burst your bubble, but a hospital would NEVER go for a program where they pay one nurse a high salary to teach 10 new grads and, together, the ELEVEN nurses (who are all being paid a nurse's salary) take care of 4-8 patients. That's less than one patient per nurse. Not financially sound in the hospital's eyes. Also, it wouldn't necessarily lighten the other nurses' load because they would just staff down. If you have a floor with 30 beds and 8 patients are being taken care of by a group of new grads, they'll staff the rest of the floor for 22 patients so every nurse will have a full assignment. In my experience, with multiple people precepting on the same shift... my load was always busier.

    Also, how would the money come from the cuts the hospital receives from decreased patient satisfaction ratings? If the hospital loses money, they don't have that money anymore and it can't be used to pilot programs. I just think, until the economy turns around, hospitals aren't going to be jumping into new programs... especially not when they're not desperate for nurses. My old hospital couldn't have cared less that in the last year and a half, they lost FIFTEEN nurses... out of a staff of about 45. That's 1/3 of the staff. They haven't replaced even half of us and the ones that they did replace were replaced with new grads (cheaper). They did nothing to try to retain those of us who were considering leaving because they knew that, in this economy, for every nurse who left, 10 more were waiting for her job.
    Nightingallow, Mulan, and joanna73 like this.
  2. 1
    I relocated 2000 miles for my first RN job 2.5 years ago. Ideal? Hardly. But sometimes the sacrifice needs to happen, if you hope to get ahead. Worth it? Absolutely. Times have been tough for new grads for years, and new grads 20 years ago experienced similar hardships. Many of us do empathize with you, new grad, because we've been there too. And having one nurse precept 10 new grads would never work. At most, you have one experienced nurse precepting two new grads. Precepting is a huge job.
    SoldierNurse22 likes this.
  3. 1
    I Will Survive, lyrics - Gloria Gaynor - YouTube



    Don't worry new grads, we will survive this tough economy and get a job that we strived for!

    Just remember, your first job might not be your ideal job at first (or may it will turn out to be!) and you may have to extend yourself quite a bit (such as relocating like joanna73 did), but do the legwork and it will be rewarding, nonetheless.

    I know I am going to do everything I can before I graduate to do just that. That's why I am optimistic about my outcome.
    Nightingallow likes this.
  4. 0
    Ok let me give this a try...
    "Not trying to burst your bubble, but a hospital would NEVER go for a program where they pay one nurse a high salary to teach 10 new grads and, together, the ELEVEN nurses (who are all being paid a nurse's salary) take care of 4-8 patients. That's less than one patient per nurse. Not financially sound in the hospital's eyes".

    Correct! But...the nurse preceptor would be saving money that would have normally of been lost on that new grad who flies the coop after a year. I never said anything about a good salary for the new grads. Sorry to be a scumbbag new grads, but we have to get experience somehow....I mean it's only 4-8 patients between 11.

    Less than one patient per nurse...Exactly...when I was in clinical you saw who was serious...on the first week of clinicals all students wanted to work...next few weeks they had no problem giving their responsibilities to the non lazy students. Weed them out!!! At the end you will have the best of the pack.


    "Also, it wouldn't necessarily lighten the other nurses' load because they would just staff down. If you have a floor with 30 beds and 8 patients are being taken care of by a group of new grads, they'll staff the rest of the floor for 22 patients so every nurse will have a full assignment. In my experience, with multiple people precepting on the same shift... my load was always busier."

    Why take only 4-8 patients?? We can't step on the existing nurses feet. So there needs to be some kind of protection but how? Let's brainstorm this!

    "Also, how would the money come from the cuts the hospital receives from decreased patient satisfaction ratings? If the hospital loses money, they don't have that money anymore and it can't be used to pilot programs".

    It will be federal funded. They took the money away with the purpose to punish hospitals (ridiculous of course) and reward the best hospitals (the rewarded was a very small % btw in NY, so where did that money go?). If we come up with a reasonable plan, hopefully with everyones help here, it could be presented to a nurse's organization for review.

    "I just think, until the economy turns around, hospitals aren't going to be jumping into new programs... especially not when they're not desperate for nurses."

    There has to be some. We just have to look. And I'm pretty sure they'd like to gain back that extra few million that was lost from the patient satisfaction scores.

    "My old hospital couldn't have cared less that in the last year and a half, they lost FIFTEEN nurses... out of a staff of about 45. That's 1/3 of the staff. They haven't replaced even half of us and the ones that they did replace were replaced with new grads (cheaper). They did nothing to try to retain those of us who were considering leaving because they knew that, in this economy, for every nurse who left, 10 more were waiting for her job."

    This is the crappy reality of it all. I want us to figure out a way to prevent this. I personally want to learn from experienced nurses, their knowledge is so much and I do not want them replaced. They are unreplaceable. This is why I want us to all stop mud slinging, and when we all realize that we need each other maybe it will stop. (ie...new nurses pay into s.s. and not live off of public benefits, experienced nurses share life long knowledge) Maybe the preceptors could get a commision off of having a really well trained crew....

    I truly thank you KelRN215! It's not bursting my bubble at all. This is our drawing table. Anyone please share ideas and concerns...(cept the mudslinging)
  5. 0
    Quote from brittne
    I Will Survive, lyrics - Gloria Gaynor - YouTube



    Don't worry new grads, we will survive this tough economy and get a job that we strived for!

    Just remember, your first job might not be your ideal job at first (or may it will turn out to be!) and you may have to extend yourself quite a bit (such as relocating like joanna73 did), but do the legwork and it will be rewarding, nonetheless.

    I know I am going to do everything I can before I graduate to do just that. That's why I am optimistic about my outcome.
    That's all you can do is stay optimistic. My nursing school was VERY upfront about my areas saturated market place...I know a few people who located...I can think of two to a neighboring state, one to Tennessee...each person who located, actually are enjoying their positions.
    I have maintained being optimistic...I also saw the options I posted to assist with my educational investment. I hope that anyone who needs these options are able to take advantage of them.
  6. 0
    Quote from LadyFree28
    That's all you can do is stay optimistic. My nursing school was VERY upfront about my areas saturated market place...I know a few people who located...I can think of two to a neighboring state, one to Tennessee...each person who located, actually are enjoying their positions.
    I have maintained being optimistic...I also saw the options I posted to assist with my educational investment. I hope that anyone who needs these options are able to take advantage of them.
    I am glad to hear my school and the surrounding schools are not the only ones that are upfront with their students.
  7. 0
    Quote from Nightingallow
    Correct! But...the nurse preceptor would be saving money that would have normally of been lost on that new grad who flies the coop after a year. I never said anything about a good salary for the new grads. Sorry to be a scumbbag new grads, but we have to get experience somehow....I mean it's only 4-8 patients between 11.
    I'm not following how having one preceptor to ten nurses and running new grad orientation like a clinical group would save money. New grads on orientation are still earning nurses' salaries. Also, I don't see hospitals worrying too much about new grads flying the coop after a year... where are they flying to? There are no jobs.

    Quote from Nightingallow
    Less than one patient per nurse...Exactly...when I was in clinical you saw who was serious...on the first week of clinicals all students wanted to work...next few weeks they had no problem giving their responsibilities to the non lazy students. Weed them out!!! At the end you will have the best of the pack.
    Hospitals are not going to hire people with the intention of weeding them out. That costs them money. They hire people they expect will succeed.



    Quote from Nightingallow
    Why take only 4-8 patients?? We can't step on the existing nurses feet. So there needs to be some kind of protection but how? Let's brainstorm this!
    I don't understand what you're saying here.


    Quote from Nightingallow
    It will be federal funded. They took the money away with the purpose to punish hospitals (ridiculous of course) and reward the best hospitals (the rewarded was a very small % btw in NY, so where did that money go?). If we come up with a reasonable plan, hopefully with everyones help here, it could be presented to a nurse's organization for review.
    The federal government is 15 TRILLION dollars in debt. Where is this money going to come from? The majority of hospitals in the United States are private hospitals that get federal money through Medicare reimbursements. Those reimbursements have already been significantly cut and the government isn't in any rush to give out more money to hospitals.
    Quote from Nightingallow
    There has to be some. We just have to look. And I'm pretty sure they'd like to gain back that extra few million that was lost from the patient satisfaction scores.
    Hiring more nurses doesn't make money for a hospital. Hospitals are businesses like anything else, they're interested in making money. One of the ways they do this is by not filling open nursing positions. My hospital was an expert at this... every few years, the floor would lose 10-15 nurses and they'd hire 3 or 4 to replace them. Call all nurses "salaried, exempt employees" that way you can overwork them into the ground without paying a dime in overtime. Simply put, hospitals do not view nurses as revenue generators. Our time isn't billed for the way physicians' time is. Though the sole reason why patients are hospitalized is because they need NURSING care, we don't bring in the big bucks for the institution.

    Quote from Nightingallow
    "My old hospital couldn't have cared less that in the last year and a half, they lost FIFTEEN nurses... out of a staff of about 45. That's 1/3 of the staff. They haven't replaced even half of us and the ones that they did replace were replaced with new grads (cheaper). They did nothing to try to retain those of us who were considering leaving because they knew that, in this economy, for every nurse who left, 10 more were waiting for her job."

    This is the crappy reality of it all. I want us to figure out a way to prevent this. I personally want to learn from experienced nurses, their knowledge is so much and I do not want them replaced. They are unreplaceable. This is why I want us to all stop mud slinging, and when we all realize that we need each other maybe it will stop. (ie...new nurses pay into s.s. and not live off of public benefits, experienced nurses share life long knowledge) Maybe the preceptors could get a commision off of having a really well trained crew....
    Yes, the reality is pretty crappy. It's not going to get any better until the economy turns around. Hospitals are not likely to pay nurses a commission for anything, especially when they don't need to. When I started working in the hospital (2007), preceptors used to get a small differential (like $2/hr) but that was eliminated several years ago. There's a surplus of nurses out there looking for jobs which makes it an employer's market. Hospitals can cut pay, cut benefits, etc. and they will still have a staff. Plus, preceptors often don't have a choice so the hospital has no incentive to offer them a commission or a bonus. It's not like there are dozens of prospective new grads that hospitals want to hire but don't because they don't have a nurse to precept them. When a new nurse is hired, the nurse manager or educator simply tells a nurse "you're precepting now."

    Quote from Nightingallow
    I truly thank you KelRN215! It's not bursting my bubble at all. This is our drawing table. Anyone please share ideas and concerns...(cept the mudslinging)
    You're welcome.
  8. 0
    Where are you located KelRN215 is you don't mind me asking? Perhaps our locations and situations are different...


    I'm not following how having one preceptor to ten nurses and running new grad orientation like a clinical group would save money. New grads on orientation are still earning nurses' salaries. Also, I don't see hospitals worrying too much about new grads flying the coop after a year... where are they flying to? There are no jobs.
    I live in NY. There are jobs for experienced nurses. New grads frequently fly the coop often, once they get the one year experience. I personally know new grads who have been part of unpaying externships & believe it or not, these spots are very competitive. Also I volunteer at a hospital so I witness firsthand of people competiting to become one.

    Hospitals are not going to hire people with the intention of weeding them out. That costs them money. They hire people they expect will succeed.
    Actually I spoke to "someone" with influence & it's possible. I never said the new grads were hired. Again the situation in NY may be unique? It's pay to play unfortunately. I know the volunteers at the hospital I'm at needs at least 50hrs before they can even step into the emergency room to make a bed. The volunteers weed themselves out! They complain how it's boring filling up water pitchers for patients and putting together charts for admission. The remaining volunteers are dedicated.

    Why take only 4-8 patients?? We can't step on the existing nurses feet. So there needs to be some kind of protection but how? Let's brainstorm this!
    I'll explain further....If more patients were taken from the existing staff, I'm sure hospitals might use this program as a way to let go of them. The nurses who are there should have some sort of protection from this occuring. This program should be used as a way to lower the patient nurse ratio while new grads could get some hands on experience, not an excuse to let go of nurses.

    The federal government is 15 TRILLION dollars in debt. Where is this money going to come from? The majority of hospitals in the United States are private hospitals that get federal money through Medicare reimbursements. Those reimbursements have already been significantly cut and the government isn't in any rush to give out more money to hospitals.
    As you probably know, the federal government does have existing training programs in other industries. In fact they currently give grants that will pay for HHAs to get their certificates. I'm currently taking advantage of a federally funded program that helps with job placement and classes learning on how to interview.

    The federal government wants people to work, they don't want people on public assistance, they want people to pay into SS, they like people working so they get taxes from people. FDR believed in "pump-priming" or federal spending to stimulate the economy, (stagnant water doesn't get around).
    When people work, they can (hopefully) afford health insurance, and get the yearly exam, & stop unnessessary ER visits for non emergency visits because $120 is too much to pay (people mock this, but when the shoe is on the other foot, things change). When people no longer work, many become sedentary, their diets depend on whatever is on sale, or whatever is most filling (white potatoes, white rice & beans, fruit drinks instead of juice...the formula on how to bring on diabetes, which is my current diet btw, it's unhealthy but when your stomach is empty it works well).

    Hiring more nurses doesn't make money for a hospital. Hospitals are businesses like anything else, they're interested in making money. One of the ways they do this is by not filling open nursing positions. My hospital was an expert at this... every few years, the floor would lose 10-15 nurses and they'd hire 3 or 4 to replace them. Call all nurses "salaried, exempt employees" that way you can overwork them into the ground without paying a dime in overtime. Simply put, hospitals do not view nurses as revenue generators. Our time isn't billed for the way physicians' time is. Though the sole reason why patients are hospitalized is because they need NURSING care, we don't bring in the big bucks for the institution.
    I'm really sorry to hear this. I feel this will truly harm patients not help them. I had the opportunity as a volunteer to see how different floors were ran and organized, and found a positive coorilation between the patient/nurse ratio and patient satisfaction levels. Another "important someone" approached me because he/she recognized my strong ability to connect with patients and staff members. He/she asked me what one should be done to increase patient satisfaction especially since I had such a profound effect on patients morales. That's another thread


    Also there are hospitals that receive grants for pilot programs. Come to think of it, one is very similar to the one I'm discussing except it's not nursing. And come to think of it, people do weed themselves out, & they do not get a salary, just for an intern/externship. No one steps on anyones feet, in fact, the nurses look forward to seeing these people. (sorry for the obscurity, it's an identifiable program)


    As for precepting, I believe the preceptor should not have a patient load on top of the 4-8 ones they have. This may be the main reason people do not want to do persue this...It's two jobs in one. This is a big mistake hospitals make and should be avoided at all costs. The outcome of seperating the two will be better trained nurses and less burnout. Personally I enjoy training other volunteers (yes, I do know that it's not a comparison to nursing) and feel someone has to really want to do it. But then again, I enjoy talking to people (and nursing) most want to strangle. I'm odd like that. Staff nurses love me for this reason, and on several attempts asked their managers to hire me to no cigar...two crappy nurses, yes crappy, nasty nurses were hired instead. I would love to figure out what's eating them.


    I believe there are better ways and I am actively looking for advice and suggestions from many sources. It's interesting to note that in person, people are more open to this plan. Possibly because the hospital's openess to trying new things, or possibly because they see me walk the talk, & know I have the best of intentions. Internet is so impersonal I must say.

    I feel I'm on to something, but it needs lots of tweaking. I have to sleep on this. It will come to me. And I stand by my last statement that constructive critism is welcome. Thanks everyone, it really does help.









    Last edit by Nightingallow on Jan 18, '13 : Reason: gramma mama mia


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