Medicaid. Is it being abused? - page 18

Medicaid was a great idea when first introduced to assure that even the very poor could get quality health care. I just wonder when I see someone drive up in a newer car come up to the triage desk... Read More

  1. by   Multicollinearity
    Well, I have on occasion been 'invited' to leave the country if certain matters don't suit my liberal heart. So I have a similar suggestion.

    If someone truly cannot bear living in a country that provides a social welfare safety net such as Medicaid, there are fanastic alternative countries you could go to. Ethiopia comes to mind. Mexico.

    Now, you couldn't go anywhere in Europe. No, can't go to Australia. I guess that leaves any of the African countries except South Africa. Or the Middle East, some of those countries don't provide indigent care. Ooooh...Afghanistan! Lovely place. Your taxes would be sooooo much lower.

    Think about it. Any civilized country provides at least indigent care, and most provide care to all.
  2. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from multicollinarity
    Well, I have on occasion been 'invited' to leave the country if certain matters don't suit my liberal heart. So I have a similar suggestion.

    If someone truly cannot bear living in a country that provides a social welfare safety net such as Medicaid, there are fanastic alternative countries you could go to. Ethiopia comes to mind. Mexico.

    Now, you couldn't go anywhere in Europe. No, can't go to Australia. I guess that leaves any of the African countries except South Africa. Or the Middle East, some of those countries don't provide indigent care. Ooooh...Afghanistan! Lovely place. Your taxes would be sooooo much lower.

    Think about it. Any civilized country provides at least indigent care, and most provide care to all.

    Come come, our fellow country men just want our government to ex cerise more control over who we let into this country of ours. Of course they also want low price vegetables, lawn care, to name a few jobs illegals do but they certainly do not want to pay for their health care and to educate their children. And of course, a large number of them have forgotten their immigrant grandparents, great grandparents and the horrible conditions they came to this country under and lived under. Perhaps we are not as civilized as we like to think of ourselves.

    Grannynurse
  3. by   lindarn
    My grandparents and greatparents came to this country LEGALLY!!!! They waited their turn in the visa line, left adult children, older parents, and siblings. and came to America. In my grandmother's case, she left her older brothers in Italy, because they were in the Italian army, and they would not let them leave. She never saw them again. My grandfather' brother was unable to obtain a Visa to come to America, and eventually emigrated to Australia, where his family lives today. They imposed on no one, took care of their own, and assimilated into this country. There were no bi- lingual Italian classes in our public schools. You learned in English, or not at all. There were no bi lingual signs, or voting pamphlets, you get the picture. In other words, they did not impose their culture, or their problems on Americans. They were their own problems. If you did not want to be an American, the boat was waiting for you.

    I tire of the illegal immigrants who are running, and ruining, this country. One only has to watch CNN, Lou Dobbs, to see the ramifications of the misguided policies of this country. There are plenty of Americans who could take these jobs, if they were made to, or given the opportunity- job or no welfare. What did the farmers do before the illegal immigrants over- ran this country-they hired american citizens. They can have inmates from the prisions to do the fruit an vegetable picking. It will give them something to do, instead of wasting oxygen, and our tax dollars, in the prisons.

    If an illegal immigrant needs extensive medical care here, there are plenty of ambulance services who can bring these individual back to their own country, before they ran up a huge tab. I also support the idea to deny American citizenship to illegal alien children, the "right" to educate them in our public schools, and clog up our hospitals. Other countries deny citizenship to immigrants. We can send the medical bills to Vincente Fox, the president of Mexico, and he can pay them. JMHO>

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  4. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from lindarn
    My grandparents and greatparents came to this country LEGALLY!!!! They waited their turn in the visa line, left adult children, older parents, and siblings. and came to America. In my grandmother's case, she left her older brothers in Italy, because they were in the Italian army, and they would not let them leave. She never saw them again. My grandfather' brother was unable to obtain a Visa to come to America, and eventually emigrated to Australia, where his family lives today. They imposed on no one, took care of their own, and assimilated into this country. There were no bi- lingual Italian classes in our public schools. You learned in English, or not at all. There were no bi lingual signs, or voting pamphlets, you get the picture. In other words, they did not impose their culture, or their problems on Americans. They were their own problems. If you did not want to be an American, the boat was waiting for you.

    I tire of the illegal immigrants who are running, and ruining, this country. One only has to watch CNN, Lou Dobbs, to see the ramifications of the misguided policies of this country. There are plenty of Americans who could take these jobs, if they were made to, or given the opportunity- job or no welfare. What did the farmers do before the illegal immigrants over- ran this country-they hired american citizens. They can have inmates from the prisions to do the fruit an vegetable picking. It will give them something to do, instead of wasting oxygen, and our tax dollars, in the prisons.

    If an illegal immigrant needs extensive medical care here, there are plenty of ambulance services who can bring these individual back to their own country, before they ran up a huge tab. I also support the idea to deny American citizenship to illegal alien children, the "right" to educate them in our public schools, and clog up our hospitals. Other countries deny citizenship to immigrants. We can send the medical bills to Vincente Fox, the president of Mexico, and he can pay them. JMHO>

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Well, I can actually agree with a few points here. I live within a couple hours of the border so this is not a debate point but matters of daily life here. I do agree that illegal immigration is a crisis. My state remains largly a poor state and alot of that has to do with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and the cost of the services for them. I actually support "the wall" that is being debated to stop illegal immigration. I think we need to control and get rid of the illegal immigration and have controlled legal immigration. I too would like Vicente Fox to get a significant bill and shut his stupid mouth. The things he says...it blows my mind.

    I have also griped for years that prison inmates shouldn't sit all day, that they should be doing manual labor under supervision.

    My various gripes regarding Medicaid on this thread have had to do with the need for Medicaid forlegal citizens.
  5. by   DidiRN
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    So what do you suggest be done? I have an idea. Pregnant and go into labor, illegal, ship their a** back across the border before they can give birth. And make sure you hold their legs together to impede their ability to deliver until you drop them off on their side of the border.
    I have seen something similar done recently where I work at, but it wasn't someone in labor. It was a critically ill person who was not in this country legally, and this was the first time I have seen this facility attempt this (ie ship them back). In the past, they have kept all others. But I guess they are tired of handing out free care. And frankly, I don't blame them one bit.
  6. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from lindarn
    My grandparents and greatparents came to this country LEGALLY!!!! They waited their turn in the visa line, left adult children, older parents, and siblings. and came to America. In my grandmother's case, she left her older brothers in Italy, because they were in the Italian army, and they would not let them leave. She never saw them again. My grandfather' brother was unable to obtain a Visa to come to America, and eventually emigrated to Australia, where his family lives today. They imposed on no one, took care of their own, and assimilated into this country. There were no bi- lingual Italian classes in our public schools. You learned in English, or not at all. There were no bi lingual signs, or voting pamphlets, you get the picture. In other words, they did not impose their culture, or their problems on Americans. They were their own problems. If you did not want to be an American, the boat was waiting for you.

    I tire of the illegal immigrants who are running, and ruining, this country. One only has to watch CNN, Lou Dobbs, to see the ramifications of the misguided policies of this country. There are plenty of Americans who could take these jobs, if they were made to, or given the opportunity- job or no welfare. What did the farmers do before the illegal immigrants over- ran this country-they hired american citizens. They can have inmates from the prisions to do the fruit an vegetable picking. It will give them something to do, instead of wasting oxygen, and our tax dollars, in the prisons.

    If an illegal immigrant needs extensive medical care here, there are plenty of ambulance services who can bring these individual back to their own country, before they ran up a huge tab. I also support the idea to deny American citizenship to illegal alien children, the "right" to educate them in our public schools, and clog up our hospitals. Other countries deny citizenship to immigrants. We can send the medical bills to Vincente Fox, the president of Mexico, and he can pay them. JMHO>

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Funny, my paternal grandfather immigrated to this country via Ellis Island (I know because I went there and search their data base) and he was not required to have a visa. And my grandfather got a job, after being sponsored by a relative and it being a condition of his immigration. He worked his way up, married, had my father and seven other brothers and sisters. Things were, in a way, a lot simpler back then. White, European, you were not viewed as much of a threat back then, although my grandmother remembers the no Irish need apply signs. And she was Irish.

    As for the large number of U.S. citizens who will take the jobs the illegals do, question, will they work for the same poor pay, live ten men to a room, sleep in shifts? I doubt it. You see, I live in SW Florida not too far from the major truck farms of this wonderful state of Florida. A lot of illegals do the crop work here, for much less pay. That is one of the reason's your vegetables are so cheap. And since our last two bad, very bad hurricane seasons, we also have a large number of non=U.S. citizens working on construction crews, road repair crews, etc, although it has lowered the cost of construction. And I doubt that any U.S. citizen would live in the substandard housing they are offered and charged an arm and a leg for.

    And I really hate to tell you this but the opportunities for immigrants has changed. Back when your and my grandparents immigrated, picking crops was a big opportunity. It was left mostly to blacks. Opportunities were in the sweatshops, which, horror of horror, unions forced out of business. And no thank you, I do not want prisoners out picking and doing construction. Too much of an opportunity for abuse by the state and the employers. And I don't view work as a form of punishment.

    And you should read a little more rather than get your information from Mr. Dobson. Studies have shown that more then 70% of the illegals are from Central and South America. And as such, would have to be flown back to their home countries, they can't be deported to Mexico. It is against the law.
    If you want to deny education to illegal off spring, feel free to. Just be prepared to increase your law enforcement, justice and long term prison systems. And be ready to build a wall around your home and lay in a supply of guns, you may need them.

    What the heck, same old rhetoric, same old misinformation.

    Grannynurse
  7. by   DutchgirlRN
    From the little of the thread that I've read it seems to have become really heated. I'm not sure what that is all about but I just wanted to make an observation.

    Friday I went to see a medicaid patient in a very poor area of town. Very tiny house, nasty carpet, nasty curtains, just nasty nasty. The patient was very pleasant. BTW they had a large flat screen TV and a Direct TV satellite hanging on the side of the house. Hum, not taking his generic Dilantin because he cannot afford it, again, Hum.
  8. by   grannynurse FNP student
    Quote from DidiRN
    I have seen something similar done recently where I work at, but it wasn't someone in labor. It was a critically ill person who was not in this country legally, and this was the first time I have seen this facility attempt this (ie ship them back). In the past, they have kept all others. But I guess they are tired of handing out free care. And frankly, I don't blame them one bit.

    Perhaps they stopped their attempt because they were breaking federal law. Any facility that accepts Hill/Burton funds, what one doesn't, must provide care to any person presented at their door. They must stabilize them before they can transfer them to an appropriate public/foreign facility. And that facility must accept the transfer. What your facility attempted to do is not only illegal, it is unconscionable. I really do not give a good hoot if the patient was legal or not. He was a critically ill patient, according to you, and deserving of treatment. And by the way, facilities do not lose everything treating illegals, they do get federal grant money.

    Grannynurse
    Now I am going to bed
  9. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from mstigerlily
    Uh..ok. My point was that there isn't much difference between "Full scope Medi-Cal" and the Medi-Cal offered to illegal aliens.

    Thus:

    a) If Medi-Cal only covers you when you are pregnant and you are pregnant most of the time (and there is no restriction on this), then that is "full scope"

    AND

    b) If Medi-Cal only covers you when you have an "emergency" (and there is no restriction on this) but nearly *everything* counts as an emergency and you use the ER as a doctor's office, then that is "full scope"
    I understand full well what your point was. My point, which is the one I'm attempting to make, after all, I suggested you post something to document that undocumented immigrants get full scope Medi-Cal. Instead, you posted a bunch of information about emergency Medi-Cal, which, while interesting, merely strengthened what I was saying.
  10. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Funny, my paternal grandfather immigrated to this country via Ellis Island (I know because I went there and search their data base) and he was not required to have a visa. And my grandfather got a job, after being sponsored by a relative and it being a condition of his immigration. He worked his way up, married, had my father and seven other brothers and sisters. Things were, in a way, a lot simpler back then. White, European, you were not viewed as much of a threat back then, although my grandmother remembers the no Irish need apply signs. And she was Irish.

    As for the large number of U.S. citizens who will take the jobs the illegals do, question, will they work for the same poor pay, live ten men to a room, sleep in shifts? I doubt it. You see, I live in SW Florida not too far from the major truck farms of this wonderful state of Florida. A lot of illegals do the crop work here, for much less pay. That is one of the reason's your vegetables are so cheap. And since our last two bad, very bad hurricane seasons, we also have a large number of non=U.S. citizens working on construction crews, road repair crews, etc, although it has lowered the cost of construction. And I doubt that any U.S. citizen would live in the substandard housing they are offered and charged an arm and a leg for.

    And I really hate to tell you this but the opportunities for immigrants has changed. Back when your and my grandparents immigrated, picking crops was a big opportunity. It was left mostly to blacks. Opportunities were in the sweatshops, which, horror of horror, unions forced out of business. And no thank you, I do not want prisoners out picking and doing construction. Too much of an opportunity for abuse by the state and the employers. And I don't view work as a form of punishment.

    And you should read a little more rather than get your information from Mr. Dobson. Studies have shown that more then 70% of the illegals are from Central and South America. And as such, would have to be flown back to their home countries, they can't be deported to Mexico. It is against the law.
    If you want to deny education to illegal off spring, feel free to. Just be prepared to increase your law enforcement, justice and long term prison systems. And be ready to build a wall around your home and lay in a supply of guns, you may need them.

    What the heck, same old rhetoric, same old misinformation.

    Grannynurse
    You're absolutely right about the working conditions many of these immigrants face. I watch those guys picking strawberries, as I drive by in my nice car on the freeway, and I scoff at the notion that they're taking jobs away from Americans. Yep, those Americans are just lined up wanting to work piece meal in the blazing sun, stooped over all day, only to return to a migrant camp at night. Shameful that these jobs aren't going to Americans, isn't it? Or all the American women who are missing out on scrubbing someone else's floors and toilets, changing messy diapers on someone else's baby, polishing someone else's silver. Yep, we've got Americans just clamoring for that opportunity. I'm not saying no Americans would take the jobs, but they certainly wouldn't work for the wages these people get.
  11. by   Multicollinearity
    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Perhaps they stopped their attempt because they were breaking federal law. Any facility that accepts Hill/Burton funds, what one doesn't, must provide care to any person presented at their door. They must stabilize them before they can transfer them to an appropriate public/foreign facility. And that facility must accept the transfer. What your facility attempted to do is not only illegal, it is unconscionable. I really do not give a good hoot if the patient was legal or not. He was a critically ill patient, according to you, and deserving of treatment. And by the way, facilities do not lose everything treating illegals, they do get federal grant money.

    Grannynurse
    Now I am going to bed
    Granny,

    I agree with you that the facility described above, trying to ship the person out...unethical and immoral. That said, I can tell you as someone living within 2 hours of the border, it's common knowledge that we DO NOT get compensated by the Federal government for the full cost of the care for illegal immigrants. Arizona sues the Feds every year to get fully compensated and it doesn't happen. It's a huge drain on the citizens of the state. I don't want illegal immigrants denied care that they need. What I want is legal immigration. Not illegal. It's also a concern with terrorists.

    We need to control immigration, do it legally and provide humane care to all.
  12. by   mercyteapot
    Quote from multicollinarity
    Granny,

    I agree with you that the facility described above, trying to ship the person out...unethical and immoral. That said, I can tell you as someone living within 2 hours of the border, it's common knowledge that we DO NOT get compensated by the Federal government for the full cost of the care for illegal immigrants. Arizona sues the Feds every year to get fully compensated and it doesn't happen. It's a huge drain on the citizens of the state. I don't want illegal immigrants denied care that they need. What I want is legal immigration. Not illegal. It's also a concern with terrorists.

    We need to control immigration, do it legally and provide humane care to all.
    Same with California. The costs of immigration are a federal issue and the costs should be picked up by the feds. That doesn't come close to happening.
  13. by   DidiRN
    They did not stop their attempt, and they found someone at the person's country to accept them as a patient. They ended up becoming more unstable and that is why they stayed here. BTW, this would not have been an ambulance ride, this would have been a 12 hr plane ride (and probably longer than that, that's just my estimate).
    Federal laws can be changed (assuming your statement is correct), and in this time of crisis, I'm sure they soon will be. We simply cannot afford to take care of everyone anymore.
    People are fed up, and rightfully so. Things are already starting to slowly change, with talk of building a wall, the formation of a volunteer militia to help watch for illegals, etc. Some of it I may not feel is correct or won't be effective, but I can certainly understand the frustration and anger behind it.

    Telling us that we are so awful for feeling this way doesn't change anyone's opinion, frankly. In fact, I believe it fuels even more anger. It certainly wont change anyone's mind. Not mine, at least.


    Quote from grannynurse FNP student
    Perhaps they stopped their attempt because they were breaking federal law. Any facility that accepts Hill/Burton funds, what one doesn't, must provide care to any person presented at their door. They must stabilize them before they can transfer them to an appropriate public/foreign facility. And that facility must accept the transfer. What your facility attempted to do is not only illegal, it is unconscionable. I really do not give a good hoot if the patient was legal or not. He was a critically ill patient, according to you, and deserving of treatment. And by the way, facilities do not lose everything treating illegals, they do get federal grant money.

    Grannynurse
    Now I am going to bed

close