MDs dont own the physician title

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I think there is a lot of confusion on this board about titles. MDs do NOT own the physician title.

In fact, it has been legal for years for a chiropractor to call himself a "chiropractic physician"

Pharmacists, DPTs, and anybody else with a doctoral degree can also use the "physician" title.

In 20 years DNPs will be able to introduce themselves as a "nurse-physician" and it will be totally normal and acceptable.

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

No offense but obviously not true. In every state podiatrists are also physicians.

If you want to post something as in "many states". List a reference. I would bet a more appropriate term would by in a few states. :)

Without checking, I would guess more states than not also allow ODs the title of physician as well.

In many states, physician is a title for a MD, DO, and DC only. In Florida, all 3 degrees allow physicians to diagnose and treat.

I'm the original poster, and NO I'm not talking about the doctor title, I'm talking about the PHYSICIAN title. It is already obvious that DNPs own the "doctor" title.

What you guys didnt know is that LOTS of people use the "physician" title, not just medical physicians. And that means that DNPs can use it as well. In fact, California has already changed their policy so that doctoral-educated nurses are classified as "physicians" in terms of nomenclature. In New York, Dr Mundinger at Columbia is organizing an effort to require New York State to add DNps to the designated list of "physicians" including MDs, DOs, physical therapists, optometrists, chiropractors, and audiologists.

ANYBODY who has a doctorate degree and works in healthcare, including DNPs, will be able to use the PHYSICIAN title.

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Do you have any evidence? Right now it is just you saying it. Please post some literature supporting what you say. :)

Specializes in Neuro ICU and Med Surg.

A doctorate of nurse practitioner is not a physician. They may be called Dr.so and so NP, as the doctor title is earned by one who has a doctorate in anything. Pharmacists, Physical therapists, NP's are not physicians as they didn't go to medical school.

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.

Sad in the day of EBP that a chiro can use the title physician

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Other physicians did not go to medical either. Going to medical school is not the definition of physician. :)

A doctorate of nurse practitioner is not a physician. They may be called Dr.so and so NP, as the doctor title is earned by one who has a doctorate in anything. Pharmacists, Physical therapists, NP's are not physicians as they didn't go to medical school.

Why did I click on this thread....

Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
Sad in the day of EBP that a chiro can use the title physician

I'm not sure why you would say that. My chiropractor diagnosed and treated my back issues better than anyone else. Are you suggesting that EBP shows something against cheapest of care? If so I would love to read it as my personal experience with chiropractic care had been phenomenal.

Specializes in Adult Nurse Practitioner.
No offense but obviously not true. In every state podiatrists are also physicians.

If you want to post something as in "many states". List a reference. I would bet a more appropriate term would by in a few states. :)

Without checking, I would guess more states than not also allow ODs the title of physician as well.

I will concede, but do podiatrists have the authority to diagnose and treat in these states?

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Yes, every state in the US.

I will concede, but do podiatrists have the authority to diagnose and treat in these states?
Specializes in Adult Nurse Practitioner.

Interesting, because here in Florida, diagnosing and treatment as a physician is limited to MD, DO, or DC title. DPS, DDS, etc. are limited in their field. I am referring to the whole body. Thanks.

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

LOL, limited in the whole body? Every clinician is limited in some way. We are discussing who are considered physicians by the states. We can also discuss who has independent practice if you like.

DC are extremely limited IN THEIR FIELD as well. Every see one with hospital privileges? How about prescribing or surgery? Invasive procedures? BTW, DC do NOT cure and the studies I've seen show only that the patients get short term relief.

You are aware that podiatrist can diagnose, treat and do surgery, alone, without supervision in real hospitals?

(5) "Practice of podiatric medicine" means the diagnosis or medical, surgical, palliative, and mechanical treatment of ailments of the human foot and leg. The surgical treatment of ailments of the human foot and leg shall be limited anatomically to that part below the anterior tibial tubercle. The practice of podiatric medicine shall include the amputation of the toes or other parts of the foot but shall not include the amputation of the foot or leg in its entirety. A podiatric physician may prescribe drugs that relate specifically to the scope of practice authorized herein.

LOW BACK PAIN-Spinal manipulation is used for the treatment of both acute and chronic back pain. Manipulation is safe and probably effective for patients without radiculopathy, however, the beneficial effect may be minimal to modest on average [

3-5]. Two meta-analyses compared spinal manipulation to a variety of other treatments, including general practitioner care, analgesics, physical therapy, exercises, or back school. The patient populations differed and findings were as follows:

  • For patients with acute or chronic low back pain, a meta-analysis of 38 randomized trials concluded that there is no evidence that spinal manipulation is superior to other standard treatments [4]. Spinal manipulation was superior to sham therapy and to therapies that have been judged to be ineffective or harmful, but had no advantage when compared with the interventions above.
  • A subsequent meta-analysis included 26 randomized trials in patients with chronic low back pain [5]. Spinal manipulation was compared with multiple treatments, including those above as well as massage, ultrasound, transcutaneous muscle stimulation, and attending a pain clinic. This meta-analysis found high-quality evidence that spinal manipulation has a statistically significant, but not clinically significant, short-term effect on reducing pain and improving functional status, compared to other interventions.

It may be possible to define subsets of patients in whom manipulation is likely to be beneficial. A randomized trial found that patients with low back pain were much more likely to benefit from manipulation plus exercise than from exercise alone, if they met at least four of the following criteria [

6]:

  • Symptoms for fewer than 16 days
  • No symptoms distal to the knee
  • A score below 19 on the Fear-Avoidance Beliefs Questionnaire
  • At least one hypomobile segment in the lumbar spine
  • At least one hip with more than 35 degrees of internal rotation

Thus, there are sufficient data to conclude that lumbar spinal manipulation is on average mildly effective for some patients with low back pain; the data are strongest for patients with acute uncomplicated low back pain. At present, we consider it appropriate to recommend manipulation as a therapeutic option to patients with uncomplicated low back pain who cannot take or tolerate other pain relieving measures (such as

acetaminophen or NSAIDs), those who responded well to manipulation in the past, or patients whose symptoms have persisted at an unacceptable level for more than 10 days. The effectiveness of manipulation relative to other forms of therapy remains a subject for ongoing research.Chiropractic care for low back pain probably costs more than supportive care provided by medical doctors, but it is also associated with enhanced patient satisfaction. The costs of chiropractic care and physical therapy are similar [7]. However, there are some data that patients who have insurance coverage for chiropractic care may have lower total health care expenditures, perhaps because of lower utilization of imaging and invasive procedures [8]; an alternative explanation for these data are that healthier patients may tend to choose a plan with chiropractic coverage [9]. No data exist to suggest that spinal manipulation can help prevent future back pain

A Cochrane review concluded that manipulation and/or mobilization were not beneficial when done alone, but they were beneficial when used with exercise [18]. The review also concluded that neither manipulation nor mobilization was superior to the other and that there was insufficient evidence about their effects in patients with radicular findings. The review acknowledged the methodologic limitations of many of the underlying trials, and we feel that the evidence remains inadequate to draw firm conclusions.

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