Doctoral degree to become an NP??? - page 77

The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical... Read More

  1. Visit  Jstand profile page
    0
    Quote from stormforce
    Really, do you honestly believe this. Yes primary care refers on to a specialist but there has to be that in depth understanding of the various conditions, both common and rare to even identify some of these disorders. They treat and manage multiple pathologies with the poly pharmacy that comes with that without referring to specialists.

    I cannot understand how any professional would believe that less education could be a good thing
    My point is that a nurse practitioner has enough education to manage this. You obviously just don't comprehend the argument. If a certain level of education is adequate to do the job, then any additional education is simply superfluous and does not add value. It simply costs more. There does not have to be any in depth understanding of rare conditions to be able to perform at the highest level of primary care. There just has to be enough to be able to recognize that something rare might be going on and it needs to be referred.
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  3. Visit  CheekyMonkey0981 profile page
    2
    Any danger of a nurse getting excited about delivering quality nursing care to their patients and advancing the science and skills of nursing for the sake of their patients rather than trying to constantly score points about extended roles and who is the more qualified to care for and treat the patient. Heaven forbid that the patient ever becomes the most important person in this debate.
    wowza and XB9S like this.
  4. Visit  Jstand profile page
    0
    Quote from GM2RN
    I've been following this discussion and just want to clarify one point. I have a BSN and in my part of the country there is absolutely no difference in pay between my degree and the ADN in the four hospitals where I have worked. I did hear of one hospital paying the BSN a paltry $0.25 more per hour than the ADN, but not enough to say they make more, in my opinion.
    Then why get the BSN? It obviously added no value at all and nobody wants to pay anything extra for it. I guess my question is, what is the point in it?
  5. Visit  Jstand profile page
    0
    Quote from CheekyMonkey0981
    Any danger of a nurse getting excited about delivering quality nursing care to their patients and advancing the science and skills of nursing for the sake of their patients rather than trying to constantly score points about extended roles and who is the more qualified to care for and treat the patient. Heaven forbid that the patient ever becomes the most important person in this debate.
    I suppose that I could agree with most of this. I would say that I believe extended roles are good for the patient. That is putting the patient first. What I am talking about when I say independent practice for NPs is advocating patients having access to providers who want to provide good customer service as well as good patient care at a reasonable price. To me that is a win-win for the patient, especially when it can be done with a masters trained nurse. I think that there is no better value than that.
  6. Visit  XB9S profile page
    1
    I have deleted and edited posts that are off topic within the last few pages, I've not PM'd anyone about this but if you find your post has gone or changed that it's because it's off topic and personal.

    Now another request and I will be as clear as I possibly can, please stay on topic, please do not post personal insults or barbed responses to other members. Try to debate this as professionals otherwise we will see yet another ANP thread at risk of closing

    This is a discussion about a doctoral degree to become a NP, not about questioning each others credentials, or throwing insults at each other

    Thank you in anticipation
    prairienp likes this.
  7. Visit  PICUPNP profile page
    0
    Quote from Jstand
    What I am talking about when I say independent practice for NPs is advocating patients having access to providers who want to provide good customer service as well as good patient care at a reasonable price. To me that is a win-win for the patient, especially when it can be done with a masters trained nurse. I think that there is no better value than that.
    The misunderstanding is that most NPs continue to function in these areas with a PHYSICIAN in collaboration for the complex issues. This debate is about the need for a doctoral degree to practice as a NP. It is not needed in its current form. If the dnp were to add in additional hard sciences with the addition of extra clinical hours, then this would be a worthwhile effort. But at this stage in the game, the dnp is too little of what it was designed for and that is a terminal degree for NPs.
  8. Visit  Jstand profile page
    0
    Quote from PICUPNP
    The misunderstanding is that most NPs continue to function in these areas with a PHYSICIAN in collaboration for the complex issues. This debate is about the need for a doctoral degree to practice as a NP. It is not needed in its current form. If the dnp were to add in additional hard sciences with the addition of extra clinical hours, then this would be a worthwhile effort. But at this stage in the game, the dnp is too little of what it was designed for and that is a terminal degree for NPs.
    The question really is, what is collaboration? In most states it is some useless after the fact chart reviews that don't mean anything in primary care settings. I would agree with you, the DNP isn't needed in its current form and it isn't needed for independent practice either. I don't even think it would be a worthwhile effort if it added additional hard sciences or extra clinical hours. I think that an experience requirement for independent practice would be much more valuable than the DNP. I do think that physician's problem with it stem mostly from the title that comes with it though, and I do find that to be ridiculous.
  9. Visit  traumaRUs profile page
    1
    Nope, the question IS NOT collaboration - its whether an APN needs a doctoral degree to practice.

    Please stay on topic!!!

    You may of course spin off another thread if you wish to discuss another subject.

    Appreciate that you educated posters will understand the substance of this message.
    XB9S likes this.
  10. Visit  Jstand profile page
    1
    Quote from traumaRUs
    Nope, the question IS NOT collaboration - its whether an APN needs a doctoral degree to practice.

    Please stay on topic!!!

    You may of course spin off another thread if you wish to discuss another subject.

    Appreciate that you educated posters will understand the substance of this message.
    If you want the discussion to be that general then my opinion would be that the answer is no. I don't understand why it would be sufficient to have a masters degree and practice now, but for there would be a need for a doctoral degree five years from now.
    traumaRUs likes this.
  11. Visit  GM2RN profile page
    2
    Quote from Jstand
    Then why get the BSN? It obviously added no value at all and nobody wants to pay anything extra for it. I guess my question is, what is the point in it?
    Many advanced positions, whether in direct patient care or management, require a minimum of a BSN, if not an MSN. If I planned to work as a bedside nurse for my entire career, in all honesty, I probably wouldn't have spent the extra money for a BSN. Even so, I think your statement takes a very narrow view of nursing and education.
    PICUPNP and traumaRUs like this.
  12. Visit  Jstand profile page
    0
    Quote from GM2RN
    Many advanced positions, whether in direct patient care or management, require a minimum of a BSN, if not an MSN. If I planned to work as a bedside nurse for my entire career, in all honesty, I probably wouldn't have spent the extra money for a BSN. Even so, I think your statement takes a very narrow view of nursing and education.
    Do the advanced positions pay more money? If so, then you misrepresented yourself before. The BSN is worth the extra money because it qualifies you for positions that pay MORE money that an ADN is NOT qualified for. Isn't that the truth? So then there is some truth to the statement that BSNs get paid more than ADNs. Otherwise nobody would get a BSN. Thanks for proving my point. I don't take a narrow view of nursing education. I just say that additional education needs to add more value primarily because it costs more and people wouldn't be willing to pay for it if it didn't mean making more money, whether that would be at the beginning of their career or later in it. It's like I have said before, more education doesn't necessarily produce a better product for the customer. What does a BSN do for the patient that an ADN doesn't do?
    Last edit by Jstand on Apr 9, '10
  13. Visit  wowza profile page
    1
    Quote from Jstand
    Do the advanced positions pay more money? If so, then you misrepresented yourself before. The BSN is worth the extra money because it qualifies you for positions that pay MORE money that an ADN is NOT qualified for. Isn't that the truth? So then there is some truth to the statement that BSNs get paid more than ADNs. Otherwise nobody would get a BSN. Thanks for proving my point. I don't take a narrow view of nursing education. I just say that additional education needs to add more value primarily because it costs more and people wouldn't be willing to pay for it if it didn't mean making more money, whether that would be at the beginning of their career or later in it. It's like I have said before, more education doesn't necessarily produce a better product for the customer. What does a BSN do for the patient that an ADN doesn't do?
    Perhaps I am just an ivory tower academic but the issue should not be what makes you more money. The issue should be what prepares you the best to take care of patients.
    PICUPNP likes this.
  14. Visit  Jstand profile page
    1
    Quote from wowza
    Perhaps I am just an ivory tower academic but the issue should not be what makes you more money. The issue should be what prepares you the best to take care of patients.
    I guess that is the real issue. That is why I asked the question in my earlier post - if a masters prepared nurse practitioner already effectively cares for patients, why is there a need for increased education. Furthermore, if the ADN can already take care of patients, why is there a need for the BSN? If the more basic education is enough to adquately take care of patients, then there should be some compelling need for the extra education in order to make it a standard and it should be standard for everyone. Otherwise it would seem to be of no real use.
    4evernrs likes this.


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