DNP vs MD

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What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see how many student docs, docs, pharmacists were against the DNP program/degree and some did not have any respect for nurses. Many had horrible things to say about nursing and nurses, they said it's easy to become a nurse and not a lot of training is required. One person said, "lets face it, doctors can survive without nurses and they can have a resident do what nurses do, but if the hospital takes the doctors out the nurses will struggle and the hospital will die."

Do doctors forget that nurses are the largest group of healthcare? Doctors are never there to see the condition of their patients, they don't know if the meds are doing what they are supposed to do. Nurses are the ones that know the patients better and they let the docs know what is going on.

Some said," if nurses want to be called doctors they should go to medical school and not attending a new program DNP. To be a doctor they need more years of school." I swear some people think that years of school predict intelligence, years of school make you a better nurse, doctor, etc. Really, what's the difference in school years between DNP and MD ?

It's becoming a big war b/w nurses and doctors. Let's face it, one can't work without the other. They both need each others help.

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
As far as psychiatry goes, NP does equal MD/DO. I have practiced for over 7 years with psychiatrists, and the only difference I have noted is a few rare tidbits of neurochemical knowledge and a terrible bedside manner in many cases.

A few psychiatrists are better than any NP I have met, and a lot are worse. MD/DO's are all very different, much like NP's. Some are great, some are horrible. Some went to random foreign schools, some went to Stanford. One good thing about NP's in psychiatry is that they didn't have to work for a few years as a slave for 40k, and actually understand people from various walks of life. I consider the first few years of NP practice as residency, and makes sense if NP's are "supervised" directly out of school. NP's should definitely have a residency where they are paid fair wages.

So in many states NPs are not equal to psychiatrists with regard to their scope of practice. Maryland recently closed the gap by doing away with attestation agreements and also passing a bill that allows NPs to sign as the second on certifications but that doesn't start until October 2015 and with inpatient psychiatry the ability to sign certs or be the first assessor of an involuntary patient is an important component.

As you mentioned NPs like MDs vary in their bedside manner and competency. I personally have seen wonderful and horrible providers of both types although in a blind test I would pick a physicians education over a NP hands down.

Also note NPS in independent practice states are not being supervised during their first few years so it can not be considered a residency they are practicing as a LIP and therefore should have the appropriate experience and education to start out independently. I agree a mandatory residency or fellowship program would be beneficial.

Specializes in Consultation Liaison Psychiatry.

Many independent practice states do require a period of supervision. Maine requires the equivalent of two years full time practice supervised by either a

physician or experienced NP priorto granting independence.

Specializes in Internal Medicine, Geriatric Medicine.
Many independent practice states do require a period of supervision. Maine requires the equivalent of two years full time practice supervised by either a

physician or experienced NP priorto granting independence.

New York State requires something like 3600 hours of practice before an NP can practice without a collaborating physician. I think it makes sense, but I would also say that any provider (MD/DO/NP/CNS/CRNA/CNM/PA/ETC) who says that they don't need to collaborate with others is dangerous and the patient should run away. I don't need a collaborating physician, but I still collaborate and discuss and ask questions with and of other providers. I don't know everything and that's ok---what is important is I know where to go for help.

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Came across this thread but I agree with madglee in that there is no reason a DNP and MD should not be considered and compensated equally. As far as I'm concerned they are nearly on par for education...

MD= 4 years any undergrad degree (may be science related/may not) + 4 years of medical school + 4 years residency (assuming PCP)+ boards= practicing physician with a total of 8 years of medical related education/residency

DNP= 4 years for BSN (many people work while obtaining their RN-BSN too) + 1-2 years of experience in given field (usually) + 4 years for DNP (which again many nurses work during) + boards = DNP

So simply because I chose/choose to not give my life to medicine for 80 hours a week for 3 years for NO PAY and instead worked and went to school, I am somehow not equal... I do think MD/OD's have their place and have a different perspective which is valuable but to say they are greater than a DNP is faulty. Thankfully many states are realizing this and laws for greater autonomy if not full autonomy are rapidly being implemented. After all it's the providers license that will be on the line, so let the professionals make their own decisions.

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
Came across this thread but I agree with madglee in that there is no reason a DNP and MD should not be considered and compensated equally. As far as I'm concerned they are nearly on par for education...

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Years in school has nothing to do with the depth of information. There is no comparison in the quality of the MD to NP especially not the DNP which imo adds no practical clinical hours or skills above the masters NP. Are you a NP? If not my guess is when you start working beside MDs you will see just how deficient our education is.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

JulesA that is your opinion. There are obvious differences in physician and APRN education, but my education was not APN deficient. I would say to anyone that thinks are education is deficient then all they need to do is review the literature on this subject.

I think jules is referring to nurse practitioner education, not crna education. CRNA education is known to be more rigorous than NP education and more specialized. But excluding crnas, there is no way a masters prepared nurse is as well educated as a physician. what busy bee has said is laughable and downright incorrect. Especially due to the fact that pre-med classes in themselves are more difficult than anything nursing has to offer, especially when gunning for nurse practitioner. I know this, I have taken them all. organic, biochem, physics are medically related, but a nurse who has not taken these classes would be blind to this fact.

a dnp being equal to a physician is laughable, at least by the purely education standpoint.

1 Votes
Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
JulesA that is your opinion. There are obvious differences in physician and APRN education, but my education was not APN deficient. I would say to anyone that thinks are education is deficient then all they need to do is review the literature on this subject.

My education was not "APN deficient" in the regard of comparing it to other NP programs and the truth is it covered the information on our easy board exams rather well. Its just amazing to me that all fluffy crap is considered relevant for a prescriber and for someone to post that medical school is comparable to nursing school based on the number of years is just absurd.

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I know right....

Person A= 8 years as CNA, 5 years LPN, 2 years RN, 2 years fnp, and 4 years DNP

person B= 4 years science based undergrad, 4 years medical school, 4 year residency, 9 years as full on physician

obviously equal in medical expertise based on years of experience, how did i miss that??????

Specializes in Anesthesia.

It isn't about trying to make comparisons between medical school and APRN school.

Where it matters the most is comparing patient outcomes between physicians and APRNs, because if medical school was the pinnacle of medical education physician outcomes would be better than any other type of provider which they are not and are often less than when patients get their care from APRNs.

It isn't about trying to make comparisons between medical school and APRN school.

Where it matters the most is comparing patient outcomes between physicians and APRNs, because if medical school was the pinnacle of medical education physician outcomes would be better than any other type of provider which they are not and are often less than when patients get their care from APRNs.

I agree. We hold medical education in the U.S. as the pinnacle of achievement, but when it comes to patient outcomes, it just doesn't hold up.

Physicians have an amazing fund of knowledge gathered from their years of education and training, but what value does that very expensive education have if they have patient outcomes that are no better than an APRN.

Many physicians in other developed countries don't go through the rigorous training that U.S. physicians do, yet those other countries also have better patient outcomes.

We have to stop thinking of the U.S. medical education as the gold standard for health care providers and start looking at what education produces the best patient outcomes.

I think jules is referring to nurse practitioner education, not crna education. CRNA education is known to be more rigorous than NP education and more specialized. But excluding crnas, there is no way a masters prepared nurse is as well educated as a physician. what busy bee has said is laughable and downright incorrect. Especially due to the fact that pre-med classes in themselves are more difficult than anything nursing has to offer, especially when gunning for nurse practitioner. I know this, I have taken them all. organic, biochem, physics are medically related, but a nurse who has not taken these classes would be blind to this fact.

a dnp being equal to a physician is laughable, at least by the purely education standpoint.

I'm glad you are the law enforcement officer for my factual based comment. There was nothing false about what I said in fact I find many errors in your argument like the fact that "pre-med classes are more difficult than anything nursing has to offer". ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I would take any hard science course any day of the year over nursing theory. Throw me in a chemistry class- I'll swim. Throw me into this opinion based choose the more right answer stuff and I flail. Nursing is clinical and pre-med is hard science. Very different. So really your opinion is rather laughable to me. HAHA you are so funny. Want to know what else is funny? The fact that physics has NOTHING to do with general medicine? So that's great they take physics but please enlighten me to how that benefits the patient.

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