Will you work during a Pandemic?

valkyria, BSN, RN · May 28, 2009

Yes and anything that is a risk to me I will not due, not with so much at stake. Ordinarily I would do it but not now. :yawn:

jaywolves · May 28, 2009

You could always adopt... during a pandemic there's bound to be some children left without parents. Just sayin'.

justt139 · May 28, 2009

yes, I would work

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · May 28, 2009

I think there is a certain moral covenant involved when you accept employment that involves service to the public and risk. For example, on 9/11, the firefighters ran towards the buildings, not away. They fulfilled their moral obligations and for some, it meant giving their lives. If they were unprepared to do so, when real risk was involved, they should have chosen another occupation and another employment setting. During and after hurricane Katrina, some police and first-responders failed to fulfill their moral obligation when they abandoned their jobs and civil order deteriorated.

If I accept employment at a hospital, as a nurse, I feel a moral obligation to continue to show up and be a professional nurse during times of public health crises, including contagious diseases that involve risk. If I'm unprepared or unwilling to be exposed to such risk, I shouldn't accept a job in a hospital at any time, including times of little risk.

On the other hand, if I'm an inactive nurse or a nurse working in a capacity that does not involve acute care or hospital care, I don't feel a moral obligation to a public health crisis beyond what I choose to involve myself with, and I see no such moral covenant.

Of course there is also a moral covenant between health care professionals and their employers and public health authorities, to provide reasonable protection. When and if that covenant breaks down, matters become more difficult.

robrtp · May 29, 2009

I think there is a certain moral covenant involved when you accept employment that involves service to the public and risk. For example, on 9/11, the firefighters ran towards the buildings, not away. They fulfilled their moral obligations and for some, it meant giving their lives. If they were unprepared to do so, when real risk was involved, they should have chosen another occupation and another employment setting. During and after hurricane Katrina, some police and first-responders failed to fulfill their moral obligation when they abandoned their jobs and civil order deteriorated.
If I accept employment at a hospital, as a nurse, I feel a moral obligation to continue to show up and be a professional nurse during times of public health crises, including contagious diseases that involve risk. If I'm unprepared or unwilling to be exposed to such risk, I shouldn't accept a job in a hospital at any time, including times of little risk.
On the other hand, if I'm an inactive nurse or a nurse working in a capacity that does not involve acute care or hospital care, I don't feel a moral obligation to a public health crisis beyond what I choose to involve myself with, and I see no such moral covenant.
Of course there is also a moral covenant between health care professionals and their employers and public health authorities, to provide reasonable protection. When and if that covenant breaks down, matters become more difficult.

I thought that was very eloquent and couldn't have said it better myself. :yeah:

lamazeteacher · May 29, 2009

Yes and anything that is a risk to me I will not do, not with so much at stake. Ordinarily I would do it but not now.

Would you do it with PPE?

lamazeteacher · May 29, 2009

i work at a level one in a large city, a gateway city to latin america. i take my job very seriously. i fought hard to become a nurse and i am proud to be one. however, i am in fertility treatments trying to have a baby and no matter what my heart may say, i will not do anything to endanger my chances to be a mom. my employer may not support this and that will be unfortunate. but i will not cross that bridge till i get to it.:heartbeat

ok. you've reached the bridge that has swine/avian flu on both sides. the latin american side has more serious, flu caused secondary illnesses. how do you deal with situations wherein there will likely be crowds: supermarkets, theatres, restaurants, where it's more than likely that someone will sneeze near you........

having a few n95 masks in a plastic baggie in your pocket or purse for risky times, is essential (after becoming pregnant), until the cases dwindle to a very few, on both sides of the border. be sure that it's fitted air tight to your face. my daughter-in-law is 5 months pregnant, due to ivf and i cringed while she and my son went to new york for a business trip. he caught a uri there or on the plane, and so far - a week after that, she hasn't developed s/s (fingers crossed).

MrsDayLPNII · Jun 3, 2009

no PPE, No indeed NOT, but i wonder when we send our troops to war if they have the same option of saying NO!

jaywolves · Jun 3, 2009

no PPE, No indeed NOT, but i wonder when we send our troops to war if they have the same option of saying NO!

They absolutely do not have an option of saying no. In addition, much of the gear used by our servicemen/women is old surplus from previous wars. I know that when I was in the Marines, our gas masks dated back to the Korean Conflict, some of our rifles back to Viet Nam.

While we whine about our family responsibilities and our desire to care for elderly parents, our servicemen/women are ducking bullets, out-gunned, out-armed and doing it with crap equipment. Seems selfish that we would even toy with the idea of not service the public in an industry we CHOSE to be a part of in their most desperate time of need.

It seems comparable to professional athletes working their whole life to play the superbowl or the world series and then refusing to play on the day of the big game.

lamazeteacher · Jun 3, 2009

The government "orders" me to work? No PPE? They'll "take care" of me?
Nah. Don't think so.

There are certain times in our lives when circumstances leave us no choice. However, if you are asthmatic, pregnant, have COPD, CAD, or have severe anemia, or you are suffering from an autoimmune disease or taking medication that reduces your immunity, you are considered exempt. Be sure you have your current doctors' statement to that effect, just in case it's required.

When you are called by your government, to "serve for greater good", and you are not exempt and choose to do other than what is required of you, there are usually consequences. Your license could be suspended/cancelled (remember that this is hypothetical), your future career choices might be narrower, due to a "black mark" on your record.......like your credit history or something equally imposing - maybe.

PPE is a requirement of the NIH and CDC, and the government or anyone else cannot expect you to work directly with a patient known to have H1N1 and/or H6N1, without it, even if you're one of those blundering fools who eschues it. You are expected to know how, when, and where to use PPE! Like be sure the patient wears an N95 mask (respirator) that fits well without moving freely on his/her face and occludes air passing in or out around it, so that there is less chance of organmisms being sprayed into the air where you can breathe them; and you wear the regular mask, when you're in the room with them. If there is no procedure being done (like sputum collection with you holding the container) that could expose you to respiratory droplets near your airway, or if a blood or body fluid splash is anticipated, you'll wear a gown and goggles (just like ordinary universal precautions).

Gloves worn in the isolation room, must be removed and hands washed, before leaving it.

lamazeteacher · Jun 3, 2009

When I have children, they will be my first priority above any government "mandate" for me to report to work. You cannot expect civillians to jeopardize the safety of their families just because they happen to work in the health care field as a way to earn a living.
Would we ask the same sacrifices of teachers, lawyers, office workers or store clerks? I sincerely doubt it. Voluntary services such as the military, national guard, Red Cross and other agencies would need to play a role in such a scenario. I suspect that there would be a high rate of casualties seeing as how our hospitals can barely manage to adjust to normal fluctuations in patient census. (I am thinking of all the havoc that was created in the past week when my hospital reached capacity- even with overtime pay people weren't willing to come in for extra shifts).

As soon as the post earthquake situation became stable in CA in 1989, workers were expected to be at their worksites. Teachers taught in their schools (unless they were condemned, then they shared classrooms at another school, and the bus drivers came for the kids, knowing where they were going and told anxious parents where their kids would be. Stores took the longest to reopen, as their security systems didn't work. Generally everyone wanted to resume their work (and paychecks). The shelter emptied during the day, only to become more crowded at the end of the day, as more evacuees were directed to shelters, since they had no water, electricity, etc. No one had TV, and I heard no complaints from anyone, even the kids about that.

Most small grocery stores gave us everything they had, to make food for those in shelters (everyone went there for meals, and to the American Legion Hall). Bakeries emptied their freezers to give us their frozen goods for sandwiches and desserts. I went to those places to ask for food, after I was relieved at the shelter. In this situation with the flu, Alaska has no flu cases, so they'd be relied upon to send needed goods to places wihout, by air. You'll see how generous people can be.

I was with the American red Cross, and stayed in a shelter as the infirmary nurse, for the first 48 hours, and it didn't occur to me to say, "I'm tired now, so I must go home". We had over 500 people in the baracks we used as the shelter, which was built of thin aluminum walls and ceiling. The snoring there was amplified X 100! Workers and supplies were flown in, in small aircraft. You'd be amazed how many people get involved in relieving disaster situations, which is what was described in this thread. I was shocked that the aftermath of Katrina, in New Orleans was as disorganized as it was......

As the first week there was drawing to an end, an army officer told me, "I want things normalized now!" He'd not been too hospitable at the beginning, and our infirmary took up half his office, and the counselling center used the other half, since that was the only place that had a door. The office ran the length of that hugeI asked him how he pictured normality, and he snapped, "I want my office back!" So I called his CO about that and didn't see him again...... Some of us become more childish in abnormal situations, others rise to the occasion, as the song went years ago, "There's nothing to it, but to do it, you've got to have hope".

Needs are prioritized, and PPE would definitely be at the head of the list. The factories that make those items have been in overdrive for at least 2 and a half months, now. It's important to overestimate your needs and communicate them to the American Red Cross. They'll get them to you!

lamazeteacher · Jun 3, 2009

no PPE, No indeed NOT, but i wonder when we send our troops to war if they have the same option of saying NO!

Oh, I forgot to mention in answering your post before, that soldiers who were ordered onto ships leaving Nova Scotia for Europe with them, were prodded to get on by rifles in their backs, if/when they balked. So no, Ms. Day, LPNII, they had no choice but to do as they were told and trained to do! A lot of them lost the contents of their stomachs as they boarded.

That happened before the USA got into the war.........

Will you work during a Pandemic?

Nurses, would you go to work during a Pandemic?