So sick of hearing about the swine flu!!!

belgarion · Nov 9, 2009

I question the statistics about H1N1 being so much more deadly than the plain old garden variety seasonal flu. Why? Because I am sure that in the past deaths that resulted from the seasonal flu were reported as being caused by pneumonia or other complications, with no mention of the flu. Since H1N1 is a "public health crisis" the tracking system is much more diligent. How can we say that it is more dangerous when we don't really have reliable data from the past to go on?

BTW, I had the seasonal flu shot back in September and I am now recovering from one of the worst cases of Type A I ever had. And yes Type A WAS CONFIRMED by testing. Vaccinations are NOT 100% effective, at least not on some people.

RedWeasel, RN · Nov 10, 2009

Well in a Sense, I am shaking in my boots for my 2month old nephew who can't get the flu shot. His mom -my sis in law- works in pediatric pulmonology.She got her shots, but my brother can't get an H1N1 shot - can't find one to get. I get texts from the CDC. Got one today. "Anyone taking care of infants under six months should get a flu shot." Really? How? So yeah it is your choice to get vaxd but remember there are infants out here that aren't allowed to get flu shots and are at high risk....and while I am at it...get your Whooping Cough shot too....most adults think it is a cold, then pass it to infants who aren't vaxd and they die. Check it out.

RedWeasel, RN · Nov 10, 2009

And yes it is deadlier to me. People -elderly- usually die of bacterial pneumonia following getting the flu-and it takes perhaps weeks to happen. Of course flu is viral but bacteria ends up in many people's systems with seasonal flu and they can die. NOw children, infants, young people, pregnant women are dying. Within like 48 hours of getting the H1N1 flu. Often from VIRAL pneumonia. There of course is a difference in viral pneumonia. Look up on Wiki "Spanish Flu". No the elderly aren't more expendable than young people but it still says something about this beast that has felled the young all around the world in such a short amount of time. ANd I might add, many of these deaths occured during the off season for flu-in the summer. So it isn't the same as seasonal flu. Many say the 1918 flu can't happen again. We have atb's to fight flu's bacterial complications-strep, staph etc. True. We have vents as well. These are great in the fight. But when you look at the Flu of 1918 you will see many died of viral pneumonia, and cytokine storms, and perhaps DIC. Not the general clinical picture for Seasonal flu which can happen so quickly it is often too late before parents realize it is. Apprx 240 children have died in the US so far. WAY too many to compare it to seasonal flu.

WalkieTalkie, RN · Nov 10, 2009

Well, let's put it this way... this time of the year last year, we might have 1 or 2 elderly/immune suppressed patients on vents due to influenza.

This year, we have 20-year-olds with no chronic conditions on ECMO. We've also had several deaths. That's something I would not see this time of year, regardless of patient population. Take a step into a Midwest ICU, and you will probably change your mind.

indigo girl · Nov 10, 2009

I question the statistics about H1N1 being so much more deadly than the plain old garden variety seasonal flu. Why? Because I am sure that in the past deaths that resulted from the seasonal flu were reported as being caused by pneumonia or other complications, with no mention of the flu. Since H1N1 is a "public health crisis" the tracking system is much more diligent. How can we say that it is more dangerous when we don't really have reliable data from the past to go on?

Your question seems to have more to do with the numbers of fatalities. I would suggest that the deadliness has nothing to do with numbers.

What if you were to just think about who was getting sick now as opposed to who got sick, and died from flu in the past few years. Many of the fatal cases that we are seeing currently are in people who had a prior existing condition. But, generally, these are not the people that you would expect to die of seasonal flu because they are not elderly, or infants. As you may recall, it is the elderly or the very young that are most at risk with seasonal flu.

What is really most amazing to me, is that completely healthy pregnant women, kids, teens and young adults are dying of this flu as well without prior health problems. Pregnant women as a group are being hit hard. It just isn't normal to read of case after case of people dying this way in the spring and summer, and now into the fall. You have perhaps noticed these deaths? They appear to be completely random events. The flu may hit more than one family member yet one lives, and another dies. There is no explanation as to why.

https://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-forum/no-prior-existing-400466.html

https://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-forum/whats-happening-now-422611.html

https://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-forum/evidence-swine-flu-399332.html

A very important difference between the seasonal flu viruses and swine flu virus lies in the abilty of the swine virus to infect deep lung tissue. You just don't see this as often with seasonal flu. The lungs of some of these cases are so damaged, that ordinary

vents don't help them. ECMO had to be used as a last ditch effort, and treating these cases is tremendously expensive, and labor intensive.

https://allnurses.com/pandemic-flu-forum/ecmo-will-we-410682.html

Co-infections with other organisms can occur as the virus knocks out the immune system. This is particularly true if a person has a prior existing health problem. The ability to penetrate deep into the lungs is one reason why this virus can be very dangerous.

http://chealth.canoe.ca/channel_health_news_details.asp?news_id=28924&news_channel_id=41&channel_id=41&relation_id=0

Earlier studies conducted in tissue culture and in ferrets - the best animal model for human flu - found the new virus is drawn to tissue found deep in the lung. That's a penchant it shares with H5N1. Seasonal flu viruses attack the upper airways.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279039

...the swine flu actively attaches to receptors in deep lung cells in addition to the receptors of cells in the nose and throat. This deep lung attachment activity is something that the more ordinary seasonal flu variants cannot do.
The findings support the more dangerous nature of the H1N1 virus in that it simply can attach to more cells, giving it greater variability and impact across more cell tissue.

Both seasonal H1N1 and the novel swine flu are Type A. I find it curious that you are reporting that you had confirmed Type A but do not say which subtype. If all that you were told was that it was Type A, then it is likely that you have swine flu simply because there isn't that much seasonal flu around just yet.

BTW, I had the seasonal flu shot back in September and I am now recovering from one of the worst cases of Type A I ever had. And yes Type A WAS CONFIRMED by testing.

Vaccinations are NOT 100% effective, at least not on some people

True, they are not, but though you might still get the disease, your chances of dying are certainly decreased if you developed some antibodies from being vaccinated. Of course, if you have swine flu, the seasonal flu shot is not going to help much.

Laidback Al · Nov 10, 2009

I want to support the points made by indigo girl in the post above. The bottom line is the demographics of severity for this pandemic virus are different compared to previous seasonal influenza viruses. It is children, teenagers, and young adults that are getting very sick and in some cases dying. The way it attacks individuals is different.

And, let us not forget, this November. The height of the influenza season is still ahead of us.

itsmejuli · Nov 10, 2009

The H1N1 pandemic is giving the CDC data on the ability of the country to produce enough vaccine to meet demand as well as the ability to get the vaccine distributed and the number of people required to do the injections.

Its become a logistical nightmare.

Thank our lucky stars that this pandemic isn't worse.

What if we got a repeat of SARS? Or if bird flu takes off....

wrightLPN · Nov 11, 2009

oh no, not the bird flu

FeelGoodNrs420 · Nov 11, 2009

An epidemiloligist told me the swine flu is "about 300% less deadly" than the seasonal flu. Also said swine flu becoming a repeat of the 1918 pandemic is extremely far-fetched - aside from dramatic advances in medicine, 1918 had a "perfect storm" of a more than ample supply of malnourished troops in mental and physiological shambles - and thus depressed immune systems - to facilitate the spread.

It's more a demographics issue really. I'm getting the vax just in case!

indigo girl · Nov 11, 2009

An epidemiloligist told me the swine flu is "about 300% less deadly" than the seasonal flu. Also said swine flu becoming a repeat of the 1918 pandemic is extremely far-fetched - aside from dramatic advances in medicine, 1918 had a "perfect storm" of a more than ample supply of malnourished troops in mental and physiological shambles - and thus depressed immune systems - to facilitate the spread.
It's more a demographics issue really. I'm getting the vax just in case!

I cannot agree with that epidemeoligist, but do agree about getting the vax. Although many have had mild to moderate cases, I am seeing four significant differences between what we saw last year and what we are seeing this year.

First, the demographics (the affected population), second, the greater ability of swine flu to attack deep lung tissue, third, cases of flu from April thru summer and continuing on into the fall and beyond, and fourth, the fact that 1/3 to 1/2 (depending upon the research) of the severe flu cases had no prior existing health problems, certainly makes the case for getting vaccinated to me. This virus is not going away until there are no more susceptible hosts.

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19389

Fifty-one percent of hospitalised cases and 42% of ICU cases were not in a recognised risk group...

I do agree that our situation is not comparable to 1918 due not only to the conditions that you mention, but also because of a less virulent virus.

blueheaven · Nov 11, 2009

I think there is merit to the "hype" this strain attacks and kills quicker esp. the younger people. Young people are dying here and I heard through the grapevine that the university hospital here has ALL their ECMOs up and running which is very unusual for that facility. For me, (with assorted lung issues) I definately get all my shots, pneumovac, flu etc. I live on the Bay in MD.