Nurse: 'I was fired for refusing flu shot'

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Nov 28, 2012

I absolutely agree. But remember, no one forces an individual to choose nursing as a career. If you don't like the conditions imposed by your employer -- get another job. Maybe in another field, if you can't live with with the job requirements of the nursing profession. Note that Lancet, the world's leading medical journal, just posted an editorial in favor of mandatory vaccination for all health care professionals. See this link.

I am sure the staff at Lancet all ran right out and got their shots. I had one today, by force, to keep my job, and my arm is killing me.

To those on the board here who say that opponents of vax should just go work in another profession - my, my, how glib you are, how easily you just ignore the decades that some of us have been nurses, the fact that we were here long before any blankety-blank flu shots - or even before you were born. You think it's so easy to just go work at something else?

Educate yourselves as to why there are those who oppose these so-called harmelss vaccines before you cut us down. Should I wish for you to get the serious side effects, the neurotoxic ones, let's say? And you do know, of course, that the vax do not always confer immunity - Some studies show that only about 50% of those vaccinated become immune. And just think - you have to get a new shot every year.

You had better hope the day never comes when your employer makes some rule you really can't stomach and then some young thing comes along and tells you to just go do some other type of work. And maybe you won't already be vested in the pension and will have wasted several years before you have to either seek life elsewhere or knuckle under in order to keep your job bcause we still don't have proper universal medical care in this great land of ours and you will be afraid to have to pay COBRA rates or go "naked". Oh, yeah, it's easy to tell others what to do when you align with the majority ruling group. Try finding yourself on the not as powerful side and then let's see what glib words of advice you have then.

And then see how you feel about yourself for giving in. Don't forget to add that to the mix. Shame on those who lack compassion and insight, not to mention knowledge, on this issue.

Laidback Al · Nov 30, 2012

To Kooky Korky -

Thanks for getting your vaccination. You will never know if you have saved one of your patients or co-worker from getting the flu, maybe you even protected yourself.

I sympathize with long time HCWs that are now required to get the vaccination. We all need to consider that the world is changing around us every day. Expecting the world and your job to stay the same over your whole career is naïve. People's job descriptions and employer requirements change all the time. Each of us needs to be flexible and change as the world changes around us.

Young people starting out in the health care profession need to understand that 5-10-15 years down road there may be job or training requirements that will be unpalatable to them in the future. If they are just starting out as a HCW and can't cope with the current job requirements, how will they be flexible enough to cope with changes in the future?

You, and many other reticent allnurses members, have coped with these new employer requirements by reluctantly getting the vaccination. New HCWs need to learn to be flexible. If they are not willing to adapt now, the best advice they can receive is to search for a different career that allows them more personal freedoms and choices.

diosadelsol, ADN, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN, CRNA · Nov 30, 2012

There are entirely too many Sheeple in this world who do as they're told rather than doing RESEARCH, naming no names...laidback Al. We are in a profession that prides itself on being evidence-based. Where's the evidence that vaccines are beneficial? And I'm not only talking about the stupid flu shot, I'm talking about them all. Do the research, get your facts straight and then join us here for an intelligent conversation. You may wanna check out vaclib.org. And yes, I'm one of those evil parents who have chosen to send their kids into this world sans vaccines.

olddragger · Nov 30, 2012

after being a Registered Nurse sine 1977 and working in a variety of roles at a major teaching medical center--today is my last day due to this flu vaccination issue. I have been exempted from having to take the vaccine due to serious complications that are well documented in my medical record. To be clear I am not an antivaccine person. Vaccinations have a purpose like all other medications and treatmen/treatments.

I do feel that mandatory vaccinations have gone too far for many reasons. Most have already been mentioned. Voluntary vaccination programs do work but they do require more work by the facilities administration. Sometimes administration takes the easy way out. I think sometimes they forget they are suppoose to work for us--not the other way around.

Anyway, I resigned because I cannot function at my desk job while wearing a mask which is required by all those that cannot take the vaccine. I do admit I do not understand how clinically making the small amount of people that truly cannot receive the vaccination,wear a mask will make any difference?

The flu vaccination is only at its best during a good match year of 87%--say 90% for simplicity sake. Our hospital has over 5000 employes. 10% of 5000 is 500. Thats 500 employes that are not required to wear a mask in which the flu vaccination did not work. They are potential carriers. Then take into account all the visitors, all the vendors, all the other types of people that are in and out of the facility. An acute care hospital is an uncontrolled enviroment-so inforcing a face mask on a select few is effective how?

Maybe all hospital workers and patients should be required to wear a mask--regardless? That would be more lodgical to me.

I believe that most of this is simply a response by Medicare to not full reimburst hospitals that don't met their "quality indicators. One of which is the 90% vaccination rate by the YEAR 2020 ( for goodness sake!). That 8 years away.....its crazy.

But, this issue drew the line in the sand for me. Enough is enough. They can have it.

FlyingScot, RN · Nov 30, 2012

Shame on those who lack compassion and insight, not to mention knowledge, on this issue.

There are entirely too many Sheeple in this world who do as they're told rather than doing RESEARCH, naming no names...laidback Al. We are in a profession that prides itself on being evidence-based. Where's the evidence that vaccines are beneficial? And I'm not only talking about the stupid flu shot, I'm talking about them all. Do the research, get your facts straight and then join us here for an intelligent conversation. You may wanna check out vaclib.org. And yes, I'm one of those evil parents who have chosen to send their kids into this world sans vaccines.

Smug much? This is what grinds my gears. This attitude that those of us who choose to get vaccinated are either too stupid to make an educated decision or so blind that we follow wherever anyone tells us is the right way to go. I get the flu shot because I have severe asthma and the last time I had the flu (I was not vaccinated at the time) it nearly killed me. I will do anything I can to avoid that chance again. Even if it's only 50% successful or 80-90% or whatever each new study says. That for me is a decrease in the risk of my dying so I'll take whatever I can get. Call me uneducated if it makes you feel smarter but at least you won't be calling me dead.

As far as all vaccines being bad, when was the last time you took care of someone in the US (not a recent immigrant) with smallpox? Furthermore, the reason you can safely leave your kids un-vaccinated is because so many before you didn't.

Describing everyone who disagrees with you as incapable of having an intelligent conversation is off-putting, untrue and, quite frankly, rude beyond measure.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Nov 30, 2012

Where's the evidence that vaccines are beneficial?

Shall we start with the eradication of smallpox and polio?

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Nov 30, 2012

Flu Shots May Not Protect the Elderly or the Very Young - Yahoo! News

It's interesting that he article admits that the flu vaccine is beneficial to most people.

jlstrande · Dec 1, 2012

Flu vaccines are only about 60% effective in preventing the flu. Most nurses chose their careers several years ago prior to hospitals implementing mass vaccination policies that result in termination if empolyees dont comply. What is worse is when the hospital overrides your personal physicians written recommendation to not receive a vaccination for a medical contraindication and tell you that they assume no risk of you having a side effect to the vaccination.

jlstrande · Dec 1, 2012

Those choosing not to get a vaccination are also making educated decisions, weighing risks versus benefit, and the benefits (60% efficacy) do not always outweigh the risks.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Dec 1, 2012

Except that the "risks" are fictional, other than to those with allergies or verifiable predispositions to certain side effects.

imjustme123 · Dec 2, 2012

Flu vaccines are only about 60% effective in preventing the flu. Most nurses chose their careers several years ago prior to hospitals implementing mass vaccination policies that result in termination if empolyees dont comply. What is worse is when the hospital overrides your personal physicians written recommendation to not receive a vaccination for a medical contraindication and tell you that they assume no risk of you having a side effect to the vaccination.

Do you have a link to a chart with effectiveness rates?

olddragger · Dec 2, 2012

I do believe the word that causes these "problems" are, "Get it or you are fired."

People can debate the clinical merit of the flu shot forever. The simple excepted fact is that it is not 100% effective. Is it of use--certainly. Should it be mandated for hcw? Oh Hell no. Why not?

Do you REALLY think that you are protecting your patients by receiving this vaccine? If you do, then does that mean that you were NOT protecting your patients before? Lets see-none of the patients from my past 35 years had gotten influenza from me? Thats to the best of my knowledge. Thats also a lot of patients.

Before someone says that I could have--lets also recognize the fact that the vaccine doesnt guarantee that you will not expose someone either--so even IF you did get the shot you could have still exposed someone.

Do you protect your patients according to your best clinical judgement? Of course not. To do that you would have to place a lot of them into an isolation room with a self contained air system and everyone around would be wearing full body suits. Is that impractical for influenza? Of course it is.

Does not receiving the flu shot mean that you are going to expose your patients to influenza? No it doesnt.

With this country being in a severe nursing shortage, do you really want to fire seasoned professional nurses because they can't medically receive the vaccine? And dont tell me that wearing a mask is an sound clinical option for everyone. That is so wrong I dont even know where to begin. If masks are to be part of the prevention program then EVERYONE needs to wear them. Bah!

Risk versus benefit? Dont we do that everyday? This vaccine is no magic bullet so WHY has it been made mandatory Money--plan and simple.

There is a reason OSHA does not recommend mandatory vaccination.

Again I agree that this vaccine does have a purpose, it does have a select population that needs it. I also agree that influenza is a significant disease, more so for some than others. But, I obviously don't agree that this so called magic bullet vaccine should be mandatory for everyone. Jeez---really!

Lets see--maybe hospitals will want to test you for being a MRSA carrier too? And, if you are, then what?

Or lets see--maybe all patients should receive the shot with no consent?