Flu Vaccine, enough already!

[Bklyn_RN]

Yes, we are in flu season. And it seems you can't go anywhere without being bombarded/enticed to get the flu vaccine. A lot of times scare tactics are used also. They tried making it mandatory for nurses last season but that failed, thank goodness. Then a friend went to a job interview, and a condition of employment was that she had to get the flu vaccine even though she did not want it.

Yet recently, a healthcare employer (I have declined to identify) went as far as to offer employees who get the flu vaccine (at work), entry into a raffle for a hot electronic gadget. I just think its too much. People already know about the flu vaccine and have made an educated decision about whether they want it or not. Flu vaccines have become extremely commercialized, which leads me to conclude that a financial windfall is being made somewhere. Just sayin...

[mindlor]

all true, but in terms of vaccination, much more apropos for measles or chickenpox than seasonal flu. the flu vaccine does not, in fact, decrease excess mortality in what we traditionally think of as the vulnerable populations (elders, children, cardiac, pulmonary, etc.). the stats just don't bear that out, even though it seems like such a foregone conclusion. therefore the whole premise is based on a false assumption.

hate to do it ma'am but i am going to have to humbly request these stats....where i can i take a look at them?

[morte, LPN, LVN]

i disagree. but we can agree to disagree :) did you not watch any benny hill???

never assume :)

i know that on the street people that have us citizenship generally refer to themselves as americans but in a college geography class this will draw the wrath of the professor :)[color=olive]this i agree with, but what do we call ourselves? usaers?

i am shocked this thread is still rambling along lol. i am also shocked that there are healthcare professionals out there that dont get it....

this is still going on because persons refuse to see facts that they don't want to. did you read grn teas link to the atlantic?

[mindlor]

Hey Morte, that link was in a post a few back from the one I was thinking of when I posted.

I read the article in the Atlantic. Interesting stuff but for the most part anecdotal at best.

The Atlantic is a pop culture mag not a peer reviewed scientific journal.....

Some contrarian studies were mentioned but never cited or explicitly named so the reader could go and read said studies independently.....

The writers of the article had no letters after their names and the article seemed fairly biased.......

Just my opinion...

[doomsayer]

I get the impression that GrnTea was referring reading, not satisfying a need for peer reviewed studies. If you need that, go find it for yourself.

People familiar with the subject know it is true that you are no less likely to die from a strain of flu if whether you have a vaccine or not- it's a safeguard!

Thanks, though for pointing out the semantics of what "America" is, and the irrelevance of references. Ugh...

:anbd:

[mindlor]

I tell you what doomsayer, try handing in a paper to any science prof without references from a peer reviewed journal/article to support your assertions...

People familiar with the subject? Who? The type of argument you are using here is anecdotal and within the circle of science is the weakest of all possible evidence...

If a body already has antibodies in place to combat an invading antigen how can that be a bad thing?

[jimthorp]

We had to have the 2011-2012 influenza vaccination by mid-October or we would be restricted from clinicals for the rest of this semester and all of next semester (exceptions allowed only for those with valid *medical* reasons, such as allergies).

When you work in radiology, you are required to wear the lead apron to protect your torso from radiation -- if you didn't wear the apron, the facility could be liable if you got cancer r/t radiation exposure. If you don't want to wear the apron, you just don't work in their facility. How is a flu shot any different in that regard? If you don't want to get the shot, you just don't work in that facility....

Wearing PPE and getting a foriegn substance injected into your body are two very different things. How is that not plainly obvious?

[llg, PhD, RN]

We all still have a choice as to whether or not to get the flu vaccine ...

And employers still have a choice as to who they hire. They are free not to hire people who don't get the vaccine. And they are free not to allow students who don't get the vaccine to come into their facility for clinicals.

The choice is still there. Some people just don't like the fact that facilities also have the freedom to choose.

[jimthorp]

I don't agree that employers should mandate people to get the flu vaccine, but stating that people have already made an educated decision about it is just not true. Some people who have commented naively seem to think the flu shot can cause the flu. The flu shot is an inactive virus and cannot cause the flu. It can cause a mild reaction as your immune system responds to it (sniffles, cold, etc.) but not the full-blown flu. The only "active" flu virus you can get from an immunization is if you get the intranasal flu spray, which most people do not get. Just because you feel you are educated on the topic doesn't mean that you should assume everyone else is. I work with a (generally) under-educated and often homeless patient population, many of whom have not received appropriate education on vaccines, among other things. I don't have a problem with an employer encouraging the vaccines because anyone who works in a hospital could potentially carry the virus and spread it to their vulnerable patients. I work with a pediatric cardiology population and spreading the flu to my patients could kill them. Even though I am young and have a very strong immune system, I choose to get the flu shot to protect my patients more than myself.

With or without the vaccination and even if you are not sick with the flu, you can spread the virus to anyone.

[jimthorp]

Both hospitals I have worked for this flu season make it a requirement of employment. You don't get the shot, you face discipline, up to and including termination.

IMHO what we need is a law prohibiting employers from requiring any foriegn substance from being injected or otherwise introduced into an employee's body.

Along the same line it should be illegal for employers to ask if you smoke or test for nicotine for the purpose of weeding out a person from potential hire.

It is a sad state of affairs when a legal activity prohibits one from hire. We are losing our freedom folks. Where will the insanity end?

I don't smoke BTW.

[jimthorp]

Sure, everyone has the right to decide for themselves. Then there are the rights of the patients to be protected from infection while they are in a very vulnerable state of health. Have you folks read about the concept of 'herd immunity'? In overly simplified terms it states that the fewer total individuals in a herd are infected, the less chance exists for the rest of the herd to become diseased. Vaccination increases the herd immunity. So when I and others get the inoculation it protects YOU from the flu. This has been an accepted concept for decades. The risks for negative impacts from the flu vaccine are negligible, so what's all the fuss? http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/flushot.htm

Perhaps it's just about personal freedom

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Perhaps it's just about personal freedom

You don't have the freedom to shout, "FIRE!" in a crowded theater in which there is no fire. You don't have the freedom to put others at risk for potentially deadly illnesses, either.

[jimthorp]

The exercise of one's constitutional rights ends when such exercise encroaches upon others' well-being.

Please elaborate as to exactly what you are saying here?

Incidently, there is no such thing as constitutional rights. The USC BOR does not grant you rights.