Top 10 Reasons Against Unions

Nurses Union

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viral2010

74 Posts

No. Not ever! Not the managerial type:)

No offense but I'm not looking for forgiveness. I do, however, disagree with nursing unions. Those of us who don't feel as though unions are a benefit are afforded the same right of free speech in advocating against that which we feel is wrong. There are too many aspects of unions that just do not appeal to me!

As far as giving unions considerations for what I make and the benefits I enjoy, Hogwash! I live in a RTW state and enjoy my job at the hospital without union representation or paying dues! I don't have the worry of striking or senority vs performance based raises and perks, or having to pay dues.

You keep repeating that about your right of free speech as if someone had questioned that right. It appears lately that in the world many conservatives live in, anyone who questions or criticizes what you say is "attacking your right of free speech". Anyone who engages in a public forum on a controversial subject should expect criticism. I completely support your right to make the statements you do, and I have a complete right (subject to the rules of the site) to point out what I feel are the errors, inconsistencies and inaccuracies in those statements. it's the nature of public discourse.

And it is in fact true that nurses in the unionized states drive up the standards for everyone, union or not. If management in the "right to work for less" states did not need to contend with the possibility of nurses leaving for higher wages elsewhere, the wages and benefits where you are would be even lower than they are.

tewdles, RN

3,156 Posts

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

Good discussion.

I live in a "right to work" state and have also never worked in a unionized setting...31 years. I am acutely aware of the fact that I have always benefited from the union efforts in nearby hospitals. I worked in management and at the bedside in a non-union urban hospital and I had close friends and family who were both management and union reps in nearby facilities.

The pay and benefit packages of non-union hospitals always reflect the pay and benefits negotiated for the staff at the union hospitals in the same or nearby communities. As someone already pointed out, if there is ANY competition for nursing staff, the non-union employers must keep pace.

viral2010

74 Posts

There are some recently organized hospitals where I am but they haven't even settled contracts as of yet. There is no threat of nurses leaving for better pay here due to our institution having the best pay scale in the area. Its obvious after 14yrs here that the nurses are very happy with pay and benefits due to low turnover. I just can't see the need for a union. We have yearly pay raises that average 4% and overall great working conditions. Why would I want to change that with a union? Why pay for the ability to come in and do your job? Why change from performance based job to one based on senority? Probably the only blessing of living in a right to work for less state is that i would never have to pay dues even if the entire state unionized. I just can't see the benefit..sorry.

Freedom42

914 Posts

There are some recently organized hospitals where I am but they haven't even settled contracts as of yet. There is no threat of nurses leaving for better pay here due to our institution having the best pay scale in the area. Its obvious after 14yrs here that the nurses are very happy with pay and benefits due to low turnover. I just can't see the need for a union. We have yearly pay raises that average 4% and overall great working conditions. Why would I want to change that with a union? Why pay for the ability to come in and do your job? Why change from performance based job to one based on senority? Probably the only blessing of living in a right to work for less state is that i would never have to pay dues even if the entire state unionized. I just can't see the benefit..sorry.

You'll see the benefit when your annual pay raise -- or your health care, or your retirement fund -- disappears without warning. As an employee at will, you have no guarantee of anything. Unfortunately that's something most of us usually learn the hard way. What security will you have when your hospital encounters money problems?

While seniority does play a roll in union contracts, the notion that the system is entirely based on it is false. All a union contract typically guarantees is that the senior employee is given the first crack at something, be it overtime or a promotion, when all other factors are equal. I've seen plenty of less senior employees given opportunities based on performance.

What the union contract does is guarantee minimum payment based on seniority. If your employer wants to reward your performance by paying more than that, the union does not object.

By the way, like ChicoDavidRN, I was in management for many years. I'd rather be a manager working with a union contract any day. When the rules of the labor agreement are clearly spelled out, I don't have to waste time haggling over just what the worker has agreed to do. That leaves us free to focus on work.

viral2010

74 Posts

So you're saying I should unionize just because of the possibility of those things happening? I don't know that I would subject myself to a union on the whim that my employer may do something to me. RTW doesn't necessarily = Bad Work environment. My wife is also a nurse and has never had the issues at work that you describe, but this isn't to say it doesn't happen. I can see some benefits to unionized nursing but I wouldn't be able to ethically or morally support a strike of any nature, here there or anywhere......

Freedom42

914 Posts

So you're saying I should unionize just because of the possibility of those things happening? I don't know that I would subject myself to a union on the whim that my employer may do something to me. RTW doesn't necessarily = Bad Work environment. My wife is also a nurse and has never had the issues at work that you describe, but this isn't to say it doesn't happen. I can see some benefits to unionized nursing but I wouldn't be able to ethically or morally support a strike of any nature, here there or anywhere......

Yes. Those are just some of the things that could happen. A contract protects you in many ways.

Do you have life insurance? Health insurance? Car insurance? Do you deposit your money in a bank that is FDIC insured? Why? Do you want to protect yourself against things that are out of your control? Why wouldn't you protect your job and your income in the same manner?

Strikes are not common.

Freedom42

914 Posts

One more thing: Ask the doctors you work with if they'd give up their personal service contracts. I think you already know the answer.

Doctors know what their rate of pay will be in the coming year. They know for how long their health care benefits are guaranteed. They know exactly how much and for how long money will be contributed to their retirement accounts. Do you?

Why shouldn't you be entitled to the same guarantee? Doesn't a nurse -- or any other hospital employee, for that matter -- merit the same guarantees as a doctor?

viral2010

74 Posts

Yes. Those are just some of the things that could happen. A contract protects you in many ways.

Do you have life insurance? Health insurance? Car insurance? Do you deposit your money in a bank that is FDIC insured? Why? Do you want to protect yourself against things that are out of your control? Why wouldn't you protect your job and your income in the same manner?

Strikes are not common.

I don't now nor have i ever worried about my job or income since becoming a nurse. As to the above ?s, no life insurance, health insurance yes, car insurance because I'm forced, and FDIC doesnt matter. I control my career based on my performance. If I don't perform well, I dont have a job!

viral2010

74 Posts

One more thing: Ask the doctors you work with if they'd give up their personal service contracts. I think you already know the answer.

Doctors know what their rate of pay will be in the coming year. They know for how long their health care benefits are guaranteed. They know exactly how much and for how long money will be contributed to their retirement accounts. Do you?

Why shouldn't you be entitled to the same guarantee? Doesn't a nurse -- or any other hospital employee, for that matter -- merit the same guarantees as a doctor?

No personal service contracts here, just asked my attending of over 20yrs and he's never heard of any such thing. There are no guarantees in life. There's no guarntee that an organized hospital will cave to the unions demands. The guarantee would be great but the aspects of striking, senority, closed shops and etc will always keep me from joining. These considerations far outweigh any contract that MIGHT be agreed upon by the hospital.

As far as strikes not being common, hogwash! Just had a bunch walk out in Minneapolis!

tewdles, RN

3,156 Posts

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

I don't agree that you should unionize if you have a good and reasonable relationship with your employer. Of course, this is based upon the experience of having worked for several excellent organizations over the years...non union.

And, I understand that should your hospital or group or (fill in the blank) be purchased by another or undergo some significant change, the specifics of your employment could also change significantly (and very quickly). I experienced that so...

That aside, I do not think that it is weird that you work in a non union hospital that treats it's nurses (and staff) well...it just used to be more common. I don't think, however, that your situation should cloud your assessment of the nursing employment conditions in thousands of hospitals and LTCs across the country...some nurses NEED organized representation.

And I don't think that you need to be or must be unionized...there are benefits to not being...just like there are risks, and some of us handle some risks better than others.

BULLYDAWGRN, RN

218 Posts

Specializes in ICU/ER/TRANSPORT.

yes,yes you are right rn1980 bring the union train to mississippi..let it's first stop be here in jackson....

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