To unionize or not... - page 3

by TravelinCEN

4,911 Views | 31 Comments

I started this thread simply because it was a very hot topic on another thread where someone wanted some advice... I hope to generate some friendly discussions regarding experiences and opinions. I don't want to get blasted for... Read More


  1. 2
    Last time I checked, working in this country was not a "right."
    It used to be if you did a **** poor job, you were fired, and someone more willing and better stepped in to do your work.

    Too many people these days have a sense of entitlement. Unions simply add on to that entitlement clause instead of looking at the bigger picture. Everyone is struggling financially right now. We are about to see another major dumping on our economy with gas prices back on the rise.

    Just my $0.02
    smily nurse and manusko like this.
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    You can be fired if you do a **** poor job , even in a unionized work place , all unions do is ensure employers follow applicable law and the companies own HR / relevant policies to terminate an employee . If management cannot find " just cause "then I would argue they are doing a poor job .Or would you as an employee prefer that management has the right to dispose of you with the trash .
    I do accept thatemployers have the right to fire ,I simply feel that if they can't show a reason for the termination maybe something other than employees performance is the reason they are terminating employees.
    eagle78, taalyn_1, Chico David RN, and 2 others like this.
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    No union is perfect, they all have their problems but as a member of one I can honestly say that our patients as well as ourselves have benefited greatly because of it. Most people can site co-workers who use and abuse the system but they are the exception not the rule. Our patients have better outcomes as a result of more manageable assignments and RN's enjoy equitable salary and benefits to match their expertise/skill. Unions = win + win in my mind.
    taalyn_1, Chico David RN, CCL RN, and 2 others like this.
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    I've worked in union and non union places. The union was wonderful for the crappy workers who didn't do a good job. We were having a late admission one day and a bed had to be moved. I asked one of the nurses (who was much younger than I) to help me move a bed. His answer: Not in my contract. The union gave him the right to be rude and disrespectful.
    I worked at a hospital with a union. The ward clerk didn't bathe...she reeked. When it was mentioned to her that her hygiene was lacking, her response: It's not in the contract that I have to bathe. It wasn't until a year later when the contract was renegotiated and the language "all employees must bathe on a regular basis' was added that she took a shower.
    smily nurse, lindarn, and SweettartRN like this.
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    Capecodmermaid , you can find idiots in any place of employment . The people you describe can be found in non union places of employment , if they are protected by TPTB ( who take the place of a union protector in their case ).
    It boils down to management having the will / desire to manage and applying the applicable laws / policies .
    eagle78, laborer, lindarn, and 1 other like this.
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    I've worked for unionized and non-unionized places. I got screwed on pretty much every non-union job I've ever worked at. The union has to be effective in order to have the changes sought by nurses, otherwise it's pointless and probably more of a hassle then it's worth. My union now is pretty good as far as unions go- they'll stand up for you when you're being taken advantage of (my colleague is going through this now, and I have in the past with the same hospital).... good wages, good benefits, no such thing as push-backs or etc. If we're on call it's $3/hr but as I'm FT I'm never on call. We must know our schedules 6 weeks in advance, and if something changes in that amount of time we must agree to those changes. If our shift needs to be extended, we're asked if we want to stay (at overtime rate) but aren't expected to. If we're called in our off time, no expectations are there that we must come in.

    I read some of these boards and thank God for my current job!
    Zombi RN, taalyn_1, Chico David RN, and 3 others like this.
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    Quote from CapeCodMermaid
    I've worked in union and non union places. The union was wonderful for the crappy workers who didn't do a good job. We were having a late admission one day and a bed had to be moved. I asked one of the nurses (who was much younger than I) to help me move a bed. His answer: Not in my contract. The union gave him the right to be rude and disrespectful.
    I worked at a hospital with a union. The ward clerk didn't bathe...she reeked. When it was mentioned to her that her hygiene was lacking, her response: It's not in the contract that I have to bathe. It wasn't until a year later when the contract was renegotiated and the language "all employees must bathe on a regular basis' was added that she took a shower.
    "The union" has nothing to do with the kind of things you describe. It's simply crappy and incompetent management. The idea that someone could not be required to bathe unless it was in the contract is simply absurd. There is a thing in labor law called "management rights" which says that basically the management gets to do all the things that management normally does - and things like dress codes and hygeine standards would definitely be in that category - "except as specified in the contract" So if a thing is not mentioned in the contract, and there is no overriding law that controls, then management can do whatever they want just as they could in a non-union workplace.
    I am the one who does much of the grievance/discipline stuff at my hospital and was a manager for 13 years, so I've been through it from all angles. What a union contract guarantees is simply due process. Management still has the right to do the things that management normally does. If a worker is not measuring up, in a union environment they have to be told how they are not measuring up and what is expected of them, then given a reasonable time to improve and their failure to improve documented. If disciplinary action is taken, and the employee wants to fight it, the union has an obligation to represent the employee, but management can deny the grievance and a union will only go to arbitration with grievances they are pretty confident of winning.
    So any manager who has a genuinely poor worker and says they can't do anything about it "because of the union" is simply saying that they are too lazy to do their job properly and go through the steps they need to go through.
    Zombi RN, taalyn_1, herring_RN, and 5 others like this.
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    I wonder if the people who posted on this subject know that the bargaining agent (Union) for RN's in most facilities that are Unionized is the American Nursing Association
    lindarn likes this.
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    Quote from billyboblewis
    I wonder if the people who posted on this subject know that the bargaining agent (Union) for RN's in most facilities that are Unionized is the American Nursing Association
    Not anymore - http://allnurses.com/collective-barg...na-371472.html
    taalyn_1 and lindarn like this.
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    Quote from billyboblewis
    I wonder if the people who posted on this subject know that the bargaining agent (Union) for RN's in most facilities that are Unionized is the American Nursing Association
    That's actually not true. The ANA as such does no collective bargaining at all and is now largely an organization of management and academic nurses. Even long ago, all the collective bargaining contracts were held by the various states that were members of the ANA rather than with the ANA itself. Some states did collective bargaining, others did not. Some years back, (if I understand the history correctly) because the ANA was dominated by nurse managers, a court decision required them to spin off the collective bargaining part as a quasi-independent organization called the UAN - United American Nurses. Then over the last several years, the UAN broke up a bit, with various states leaving for various reasons. Finally, a couple of years ago those states that remained in UAN joined together with California and Massachusetts - who had left much earlier - to form National Nurses United, which is now much the largest nurse union and not affiliated in any way with ANA. Another group of ex-UAN states have their own much smaller multi-state organization, but I can't remember what it's called. Pretty confusing history.
    Finally, because quite a few state nurses associations never did collective bargaining (and some who did were not very effective) and there were nurses in those states who wanted to unionize, various non-nursing unions have represented (and still do) limited numbers of nurses. These include Teamsters, Laborers, SEIU, American Federation of Teachers and others.
    I hope and believe that eventually, most of it will come together under the NNU banner, but there are lots of reasons why that process will be slow.
    taalyn_1, laborer, CCL RN, and 3 others like this.


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