RN "Super Union"

Nurses Union

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noreenl

325 Posts

Specializes in school RN, CNA Instructor, M/S.
I am opposed to Unions in the Nursing profession. We are professionals. It's humiliating to me to be lumped in with truck drivers and factory workers. Is that how we want to be perceived? It is possible to make changes and impose regulations without forming a union - take the accounting profession. They have a set of standards they follow without forming a union. I am able to speak and stand up for myself. Don't get me wrong - I do see a time and a place for some unions. They were necessary in many industries - especially back in the 1930's 40's etc and I'm sure are still necessary in other areas today. But Nursing? Come on. If you need to invoke change in your workplace, then make a strong case, present your facts and work together to implement it. If administration is not listening to you - then you need to listen to their objections, and counter with facts from your side of the argument. When I see news articles with nurses going on strike and threatening their workplace and patient care, it makes me sick - just as it does when I see my local teachers going on strike. Just my own opinion - I'm sure there are others with opposite views.

I can respect your opinion but I have to disagree. Patients have rights, LTC Residents have rights it is about time RNs LPNs and CNAs and other bedside care staff had rights as well. Look at the recent articles pointing out the MILLIONS OF DOLLARS "AWARDED" to CEOs of huge hospitals while aides in hospitals and schools are being laid off and They are the most valuable and least paid staff people!!!! My aides can tell me more apbout a child than anyone because they are with them ALL THE TIME!! Just because everyone knows something is wrong and should be changed doesn't mean it will be. Organizations like National Nurse focus a bright light and loudly say in one voice THIS IS WRONG AND IT NEEDS TO STOP!! A unified organization; whether a union or a group unified under a cause seems to be the only way things are recognized. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and I have seen unions scream and win and also scream and lose. It is the people working together for a purpose that will someday win the day. I am willing to work with NNO in this goal. Strikes are just one tool in the orificenal. I agree it is difficult when nurses strike, but I believe it is a necessary evil.

And as far as lumping in with truck drivers and factory workers THROW ME RIGHT IN WITH THOSE HARD WORKING FOLKS. I WOULD BE HONORED TO WORK SIDE BY SIDE WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO WORK AT THEIR JOB JUST AS HARD AS I DO AT MINE!!!!

tewdles, RN

3,156 Posts

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

I have never worked as a unionized RN. I have, however, worked for a couple of companies who worked their professional staff like slaves, refused to pay overtime, required ungodly amounts of oncall time, cheated them on the oncall pay, threatened them with termination if they were off with a sick child, etc...one place continues to this day to require HHAs to work everyother weekend but DOES NOT provide them a day off during that stretch...those poor girls work 12 on 2 off and have been for 2 years now...because they need the work/benefits and the big rich catholic hospital knows it.

Nurses are professionals but too many are treated like general laborers by too many employers.

RN4MERCY

328 Posts

Specializes in ICU/CCU/TRAUMA/ECMO/BURN/PACU/.

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i am opposed to unions in the nursing profession. we are professionals. it's humiliating to me to be lumped in with truck drivers and factory workers. is that how we want to be perceived? it is possible to make changes and impose regulations without forming a union - take the accounting profession. they have a set of standards they follow without forming a union. i am able to speak and stand up for myself. don't get me wrong - i do see a time and a place for some unions. they were necessary in many industries - especially back in the 1930's 40's etc and i'm sure are still necessary in other areas today. but nursing? come on. if you need to invoke change in your workplace, then make a strong case, present your facts and work together to implement it. if administration is not listening to you - then you need to listen to their objections, and counter with facts from your side of the argument. when i see news articles with nurses going on strike and threatening their workplace and patient care, it makes me sick - just as it does when i see my local teachers going on strike. just my own opinion - i'm sure there are others with opposite views.

so, minirn, a majority of nurses have recognized that their working conditions are unsafe: mandatory overtime, unmanageable high acuity patient assignments, no meal and break relief, no lifting help, inadequate support staff to answer the phones, transport lab specimens, deliver pharmaceuticals, and unfair retaliation...and they take their concerns to management, who says, "...do the best you can, too bad, if you don't like it, leave. there's no money in the budget for the staffing and supplies you, (as professionals), have said you need to safely care for patients"...yada, yada, yada. good nurses quit, patients are harmed, good nurses are fired and held accountable for the harm that was all but predestined due to the hostile and hazardous working conditions maintained by employers. nurses who blow the whistle after exhausting the internal grievance procedures are fired...then what?

i say: union. pro-nurse, pro-patient, professional! nurses have been organizing collectively since the days of florence nightingale to end unsafe patient care practices and abusive treatment of student nurses and graduate nurses. early on, educated nurses saw the wisdom of controlling their own practice by advocating for independent, professional licensure acquired after a prescribed minimum standard of academic preparation and supervised practice of skills in actual clinical practice. the license is independent of the employer's whims, whether the employer is a physician or hospital. lavinia dock advocated for unionization of nurses lest nurses become accomplices in their own subordination to the paternalistic male-dominated social and political heirarchies of the day.

what many of us have observed in this day and age, is that the aggregate profits of hospitals are going through the roof, even as the rest of the economy is tanking. patients admissions are being delayed or denied and nursing staffs are squeezed at a time when patients who are admitted finally, (after being rationed out of receiving early and/or preventative health services), are sicker and require more intensive/expensive care. as individual nurses we have trouble fighting that heirarchy of greed; it's a heirarchy that harms patients and causes nurses to leave the profession. we have a duty to change circumstances that are against the interests of patients. remember, patients are admitted to hospitals because they need nursing care. we have a duty to remove any barriers to their ability to receive safe, therapeutic, and competent care. collectively, nurses can be an unstoppable force for good. too bad a few get co-opted into thinking outside the nursing process beneficent service model box and into the industrial/manufacturing health-care-is-a-for-profit-commodity box. call it a stockholm syndrome of sorts, where the oppressed align themselves with and promote the agenda of the oppressors, rather than as advocates for the needs of patients.

please consider reading up on the history of nursing before you call a nursing union's collective patient advocacy unprofessional. you are apparently a new poster to this site. i don't understand why you feel the need to demean and devalue labor of any kind. truck drivers and factory workers deserve fair and safe treatment. our safety often depends on their ability to do a good job. what happens when that ability is encumbered by a greedy employers' self interest that includes cutting corners and imposing retaliatory and adversarial policies to maximize profit? nurses at the bedside are the front line of advocacy for the most vulnerable among us: patients. our patients deserve no less than a unionized professional workforce whose right to advocate in their exclusive interest is protected. nurses don't belong in unions for or run by truck drivers or teachers because nurses have a unique professional accountability and legal responsibility for the provision of care to patients. nurses should belong to an all rn labor and professional organization: national nurses united.

what makes me sick is patients who suffer preventable complications and death because they can't afford medically necessary health care. a sick workforce intensifies an already sick economy. nnu nurses are working to change that; a unique, landmark study has shown that it doesn't have to be this way. that's why it's good that all unions can affiliate to advocate for meaningful political change that will benefit all of us: a national health plan. insurance company middlemen and their profit-taking have no place in the provision of health care.

PICUPNP

269 Posts

There are those of us that are anti-union, but that doesn't necessarily mean that "we" are aligned with hospital adminstration, nor does it mean that we are promoting their agenda. Amazingly enough, we are educated, professional nurses who don't see unions as a necessity. I don't now nor will I ever see it as being professional to join an organization that uses fear tactics to press an issue. If these unions are for the good of nurses eveywhere, why are there only 150,000ish out of 3million RNs members? Once again, what's good for one isn't necessarily good for all.

minirn

21 Posts

so, minirn, a majority of nurses have recognized that their working conditions are unsafe: mandatory overtime, unmanageable high acuity patient assignments, no meal and break relief, no lifting help, inadequate support staff to answer the phones, transport lab specimens, deliver pharmaceuticals, and unfair retaliation...and they take their concerns to management, who says, "...do the best you can, too bad, if you don't like it, leave. there's no money in the budget for the staffing and supplies you, (as professionals), have said you need to safely care for patients"...yada, yada, yada. good nurses quit, patients are harmed, good nurses are fired and held accountable for the harm that was all but predestined due to the hostile and hazardous working conditions maintained by employers. nurses who blow the whistle after exhausting the internal grievance procedures are fired...then what?

i say: union. pro-nurse, pro-patient, professional! nurses have been organizing collectively since the days of florence nightingale to end unsafe patient care practices and abusive treatment of student nurses and graduate nurses. early on, educated nurses saw the wisdom of controlling their own practice by advocating for independent, professional licensure acquired after a prescribed minimum standard of academic preparation and supervised practice of skills in actual clinical practice. the license is independent of the employer's whims, whether the employer is a physician or hospital. lavinia dock advocated for unionization of nurses lest nurses become accomplices in their own subordination to the paternalistic male-dominated social and political heirarchies of the day.

....

please consider reading up on the history of nursing before you call a nursing union's collective patient advocacy unprofessional. you are apparently a new poster to this site. i don't understand why you feel the need to demean and devalue labor of any kind. truck drivers and factory workers deserve fair and safe treatment. our safety often depends on their ability to do a good job. what happens when that ability is encumbered by a greedy employers' self interest that includes cutting corners and imposing retaliatory and adversarial policies to maximize profit? nurses at the bedside are the front line of advocacy for the most vulnerable among us: patients. our patients deserve no less than a unionized professional workforce whose right to advocate in their exclusive interest is protected. nurses don't belong in unions for or run by truck drivers or teachers because nurses have a unique professional accountability and legal responsibility for the provision of care to patients. nurses should belong to an all rn labor and professional organization: national nurses united.

...

as i stated in my first post (and yes i am a new poster - i hope that's all right) this was just my opinion. i did not mean to demean anyone. and i did not say anywhere that a nurses union was unprofessional. just that we are a profession under the definition: ""a profession is a vocation founded upon specialised educational training, the purpose of which is to supply disinterested counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain" . from the latin: "to swear (an oath)". and in accordance with this definition i do not think we are linked together with truck drivers and factory workers. they do good important work and do so safely - it just so happens that nurses fall into this category of professionals. i do not use the term "professional" in the colloquial manner to indicate if they do their job well or "professionally". please recognize the difference - i meant no disrespect towards other jobs.

i just have different ideas. when i see that somethings needs to be done - i do it and if we are understaffed, as happens, i just do those things more often - it's my job. if i need to speak up and make a point i do so. - i just don't like to be lumped into a union, that's all - it's my opinion, ok? sometimes things change and sometimes things don't.

minirn

21 Posts

rnsagainstforcedunionism.blogspot.com

enjoy!

thank you - it was very interesting.

RN4MERCY

328 Posts

Specializes in ICU/CCU/TRAUMA/ECMO/BURN/PACU/.
There are those of us that are anti-union, but that doesn't necessarily mean that "we" are aligned with hospital adminstration, nor does it mean that we are promoting their agenda. Amazingly enough, we are educated, professional nurses who don't see unions as a necessity. I don't now nor will I ever see it as being professional to join an organization that uses fear tactics to press an issue. If these unions are for the good of nurses eveywhere, why are there only 150,000ish out of 3million RNs members? Once again, what's good for one isn't necessarily good for all.

No one said you weren't educated or well-intended. Just saying, in answer to minirn, perhaps some are a bit uninformed about the history of nurses organizing on behalf of their professional and their patient's interests. Hospital administrators work under a contract with the institution, why shouldn't nurses? The hospitals belong to a union and collectively oppose safe staffing, workman's comp reform and lift teams. Why shouldn't nurses pool their resources and have a legislative agenda to fight for the things that matter to their patients and their profession?

Go ahead, work mandatory overtime without break relief, every weekend, have 12 hour shifts forced on you, and night shifts without a differential; go ahead and work your whole life without healthcare and pension benefits, and go home and lay awake at night wondering what you forgot to do, what meds you've missed or the patient who coded because you had too many patients than you could safely care for and you didn't want to admit it because you feared administrative criticism or feared for your job.

And if you don't have to worry about any of those things and you have decent benefits, thank a union nurse; a nurse that had the guts to stand up collectively and fight for those things; a union nurse who understands that we all win and our patients will have better outcomes if we just stick together. Hospitals without unions have to offer comparable benefits in order to attract and keep nurses.

I do have a problem with the throw backs who try to smear and tear down the work of a good collective of nurses by painting them with a rock-and-bottle-throwing mobster brush. It's really counterproductive and disingenuous. Especially nurses who offer no solution or alternative of their own to the workplace abuses and short-changing of patients except to say they're anti-union. No professional all RN nurses union that I know of uses "fear tactics" as you call them to enlist support for their vision and values, and the professional practice protections they afford. You're right, such tactics wouldn't work and certainly wouldn't appeal to the 150,000 members of the NNU, the fastest growing all RN professional union in the country.

In terms of the numbers, research shows that a majority of workers would choose to join a union if they could; the fear and intimidation comes from employers who threaten termination of their professionals and workers who speak out. Employers spend billions to hire union busters that interfere with nurses' rights to organize...money that should've been spent hiring more nurses to meet the needs of patients, instead of short-sheeting them by deliberate understaffing. Please don't make the mistake of trying to marginalize and trivialize the significance of the news that nurses are uniting to protect their patients and their practice, in advocacy for a more humane and civilized healthcare delivery system in this country. I'm perplexed that you seem to want to detract from this historical event rather than celebrate it and contribute to it in a meaningful way.

Someone in a nurses' union will be fighting for and winning better working conditions and legislation that codifies your right to exercise your judgement and practice your profession the way you were taught and you will reap the benefits. Whether you ever give thanks for your blessings and acknowledge where they come from is up to you. As a nurse, in your own way you may be a blessing to others; but worker solidarity with your peers will provide you with true social security. The only way to ensure that you continue to have good working conditions and a safe environment of care for your patients is to make sure everyone has them. The only way to do that is to hold employers accountable.

HELLO? If they're united and we're not....then, by default, you're aligned with their interests and their agenda!

PICUPNP

269 Posts

To start, there are no unionized nurses in Texas that I know of other than those at Cypress Fairbanks in houston, and they are in the process of decertifying your precious union. From my readings, it would seem that the cna couldn't come across with all of their promises..as usual. As far as trivializing YOUR historic event, it is nothing more than 3 nursing unions becoming one...Big Deal! I'm thankful to live in a right to work state where your union will never gain a foothold. Keep trying and we'll keep throwing the unions out. They can't survive here anyway because the nurses here don't have to pay their ridiculous dues to remain employed. The fact that a majority of nurses who belong to these organizations have to pay dues to remain employed is tantmount to a dictatorship! Why should i have to pay to be employed?

Onekidneynurse

475 Posts

No one said you weren't educated or well-intended. Just saying, in answer to minirn, perhaps some are a bit uninformed about the history of nurses organizing on behalf of their professional and their patient's interests. Hospital administrators work under a contract with the institution, why shouldn't nurses? The hospitals belong to a union and collectively oppose safe staffing, workman's comp reform and lift teams. Why shouldn't nurses pool their resources and have a legislative agenda to fight for the things that matter to their patients and their profession?

Go ahead, work mandatory overtime without break relief, every weekend, have 12 hour shifts forced on you, and night shifts without a differential; go ahead and work your whole life without healthcare and pension benefits, and go home and lay awake at night wondering what you forgot to do, what meds you've missed or the patient who coded because you had too many patients than you could safely care for and you didn't want to admit it because you feared administrative criticism or feared for your job.

And if you don't have to worry about any of those things and you have decent benefits, thank a union nurse; a nurse that had the guts to stand up collectively and fight for those things; a union nurse who understands that we all win and our patients will have better outcomes if we just stick together. Hospitals without unions have to offer comparable benefits in order to attract and keep nurses.

I do have a problem with the throw backs who try to smear and tear down the work of a good collective of nurses by painting them with a rock-and-bottle-throwing mobster brush. It's really counterproductive and disingenuous. Especially nurses who offer no solution or alternative of their own to the workplace abuses and short-changing of patients except to say they're anti-union. No professional all RN nurses union that I know of uses "fear tactics" as you call them to enlist support for their vision and values, and the professional practice protections they afford. You're right, such tactics wouldn't work and certainly wouldn't appeal to the 150,000 members of the NNU, the fastest growing all RN professional union in the country.

In terms of the numbers, research shows that a majority of workers would choose to join a union if they could; the fear and intimidation comes from employers who threaten termination of their professionals and workers who speak out. Employers spend billions to hire union busters that interfere with nurses' rights to organize...money that should've been spent hiring more nurses to meet the needs of patients, instead of short-sheeting them by deliberate understaffing. Please don't make the mistake of trying to marginalize and trivialize the significance of the news that nurses are uniting to protect their patients and their practice, in advocacy for a more humane and civilized healthcare delivery system in this country. I'm perplexed that you seem to want to detract from this historical event rather than celebrate it and contribute to it in a meaningful way.

Someone in a nurses' union will be fighting for and winning better working conditions and legislation that codifies your right to exercise your judgement and practice your profession the way you were taught and you will reap the benefits. Whether you ever give thanks for your blessings and acknowledge where they come from is up to you. As a nurse, in your own way you may be a blessing to others; but worker solidarity with your peers will provide you with true social security. The only way to ensure that you continue to have good working conditions and a safe environment of care for your patients is to make sure everyone has them. The only way to do that is to hold employers accountable.

HELLO? If they're united and we're not....then, by default, you're aligned with their interests and their agenda!

Why has it taken so long to get what you want?

allnurses Guide

herring_RN, ASN, BSN

3,651 Posts

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

As philosopher Gilda Radner said as character Roseanne Roseannadanna, "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something!

If it's not one thing, it's another!"

Onekidneynurse

475 Posts

Why has it taken so long to get what you want?

BTW you can be an independent contractor. You have a license just like a plumber, electrican, etc. Might be difficult to do all by your lonesome, but many do.

Onekidneynurse

475 Posts

As philosopher Gilda Radner said as character Roseanne Roseannadanna, "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something!

If it's not one thing, it's another!"

I had a counselor MSN BTW (during my divorce) tell me, "People don't stay where they aren't happy." I've never forgotten that. Of course I had to tell her "SANE people don't stay where they aren't happy." LOL

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