dumb question... what is a union

northwestwind · Jun 8, 2008

A very good question. The Massachusetts Nursing Association and the California Nursing Association are two groups that are heavily involved.

Go both of their Nursing Association websites for more information.

Unions are big in negotiating the following with healthcare organizations, specifically hospitals:

1) Limits on the use of unlicensed personnel

2) Limits on mandatory overtime

3) Improvements with staffing levels

4) Inappropriate floating of nursing personnel

Hopefully nurses who have been on both sides of the "table" will contribute their experiences here. I have never been a union nurse. There are pros and cons.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jun 8, 2008

I've moved your thread to our Collective Bargaining and Nursing Union Discussion forum. Take a look around at stickied posts at top along with threads for answers.

llg, PhD, RN · Jun 8, 2008

A union is simply an organization of people who work together towards common goals. When most people use the word "union" they mean a group of people who work in the same field who join together to negotiate with employers. They establish contracts in which the employer promised to do certain things (pay certain wages, provide certain benefits, provide certain working conditions,etc.) and the workers promise to show up for work and do the job.

Over the course of history, unions have achieved many good things -- establishing fair wage standards and working conditions in many industies. However, it's not all a perfect picture. The history of the labor movement (and the formation of unions) has also had its dark side. In some cases, there has been violence and the union of workers and the employers fight for what they want. Since big money is involved, it sometimes get ugly.

Some people look at the positive aspects of belonging to a union (having an organization that will stand up for the rights of the workers) and are strong supporters of unionization. Other people look at the negative aspects (the fostering of an "us against them" atmosphere in the workplace, the history of tension and sometimes violence, disagreement with some of the issues that the union chooses to fight for) and do NOT want to be a part of the union.

It's a controversial issue in nursing as not all nurses feel the same way about being a part of a union as there are both advantages and disadvantages to being part of a workforce that is unionized.

Chico David, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2008

Not a dumb question at all, since most young Americans grow up with very little knowledge of the labor movement or what it has done for American workers. You've had a couple of pretty decent fairly objective responses. So I thought I'd chip in with a thoroughly pro-union response - I'm sure you'll get some antis too.

As has been mentioned above, a union is its members. That seems self-evident, but managers and other anti-union forces will work really hard to keep you from getting that. And, to be honest, even a lot of union members don't fully get it.

So a group of workers form a union, and they hire staff to do the work that the members themselves don't have the skills for. Unfortunately, in too many American unions, the members get in the habit of sitting back and letting the staff run the union instead of truly being invested in it themselves. But a union works best when most of the decision making and a big part of the work is done by members themselves, not by staff.

I generally feel that the union I'm part of,California Nurses Assn, does quite well that way - not perfect, there's always room to improve - but we generally do better than most at engaging our members and the members really are the key decision makers.

The big rap on unions for nurses in particular is that unions are somehow "unprofessional". I feel exactly the opposite of that.

While people define the characteristics of a profession in various ways, the core characteristic in my mind is that a profession sets the parameters of what is acceptable practice - In our case, what is safe, competent and effective care. We are commanded by our practice act - in California at least - and by the best traditions of our profession, to act as patient advocates and to practice in the interest of the patient above all else.

Unfortunately, we exist in a world where healthcare is a business. That means that in practical terms, a nurse who tries to practice always in the interest of the patient will inevitably come into conflict with the business interests of the employer. In my experience, in a non union - or weak union - environment, the nurse who consitently advocates for the patient against the interest of the employer will get a lot of practice updating his or her resume. It is only by banding together that we have the strength and force to truly stand up for our patients and the quality of our profession.

Also, nurse unions - the good ones - have been very effective advocating for the patient and the profession in the legislature - staffing ratio legislation, lifting restrictions, bans or limits on mandatory overtime - have all been legislative acheivements of nurses unions in various states.

By contrast, the non-union nurse associations are usually dominated by management and academic nurses so they are not as effective at representing the interest of the bedside nurse, especially where that interest conflicts with the employer's interests.

I think it's fair to give personal history, as context for the above: RN for 27 years, was a manager for 13, then back to staff in 1997. Played a key role in unionizing my hospital in 2000. elected to the board of CNA in 2003, then to the exec board in 2005.

RN1989 · Jun 30, 2008

Not a dumb question at all, since most young Americans grow up with very little knowledge of the labor movement or what it has done for American workers.

The fact that someone had to ask this question really irks me. Just another sign that our society is going down the toilet and can't even provide an education on something that has been and continues to be an important part of the US.

It does not bode well for the future of nursing if today's high school graduates who will be future leaders are lacking such basic information. If they aren't getting this info, what else are they missing from their education?

Nancy2 · Jul 3, 2008

I think you have a great question! When I was a student nurse, I was the vice president of my student nurses association and very active in legislative efforts in healthcare throug this. When I became an RN I initially worked for a hospital where the RNs were represented by a union. It had been in lace for some time and it was a public hospital. I worked there for 15 years. I then moved to another city and went to work for another Hospital where the RNs were represented by a union. According to that contract even though I had 15 years of experience they were unable to pay me higher than if I had only 10 yrs. I was forced to work every holiday because I had the leaste seniority. I was the only one in my department with small children. I tried to talk to the union rep and they were unresponsive. I tried to talk to my manager and she said her hands were tied by the union contract. When I got my first evaluation, I had the highest scores on everything. I had highest patient satifaction rate, highest productivity and the highes rating by the physicians we worked with. However, I got the same wage increae as everyone else because that was what was negotiated by our "exclusive representative". I have since left that hospital and refuse to work in another "union" hospital. I prefer to negotiate for myself and to be rewarded for my excellent care. I have NEVER had a problem advocating for my patients!! With or without a union, that is my duty and I fulfill it well. If I need a union, then I'm in thewrong line of work!!!

Mindful, RN · Jul 3, 2008

Two great pro union movies , Norma Ray 1979, and Hoffa 1992. Watch and learn...... :yeah: