Foreign MDs becoming US CRNAs - page 3

I had a very interesting conversation with an RN the other day. Her sister is a physician in another country and could not get into the US as a practicing physician. Instead, she went to nursing... Read More

  1. by   TheBigBadDog
    Quote from suzanne4
    A foreign doctor doesn't repeat medical school. Just the internship and specialty training. And must still pass all of the boards, USMLE.
    Actually, it varies according to each state, some require just the internship, some the last year or two, and some require the re-doing the full boat. That's true for dentistry too, except for Minnesota which is the only state that allows a foriegn dentist to just take the examination.

    Again, compared to the entrance requirements for nurses... The physicians and dentists have strong political lobbies and the nurses have, ummm the ANA, enough said.
  2. by   suzanne4
    Sorry, I have been a nurse for over 25 years and I have worked all over the country. I do not know of one foreign doc that has to have repeated medical school. Yes, they have to repeat their residency and internship, but not the initial four years of medical school. Big difference!!!!!
  3. by   TheBigBadDog
    Quote from suzanne4
    Sorry, I have been a nurse for over 25 years and I have worked all over the country. I do not know of one foreign doc that has to have repeated medical school. Yes, they have to repeat their residency and internship, but not the initial four years of medical school. Big difference!!!!!
    Then you need to read the State Laws and contact the medical boards in the different states, I HAVE!!!! But that is not the point, the point is that there is SIGNIFICANT BARRIERS PUT UP BY THE AMA AND THE ADA TO PROTECT THIER MEMBERS FROM COMPETITION FROM FORIEGN WORKERS, BUT NONE PUT UP BY THE ANA. IN FACT, IT IS EASIER TO COME AND WORK IN THE USA AS A NURSE THEN ANY OTHER OCCUPATION, WHICH CAUSES NURSING WAGES TO BE MUCH LOWER THEN THEY SHOULD BE!
  4. by   suzanne4
    Once they have been accepted into an approved residency and complete it, they must leave the US for a period of a minimum of two years to meet the requirements of the J-1 visa which they train under. I do not know of one foreign doctor that has repeated medical school here, only their post degree training. That goes for Arizona, New York, California, Michigan, Florida, etc.
    plus many, many others. The laws state post-degree training must be redone in the US, that does not mean medical school. It means an internship and a residency; even if they were a heart surgeon in another country, or a neuro-surgeon.
  5. by   Rep
    Quote from ethelbsnrn
    REP,
    Are you practising nursing in the US? If not, how could you compare the atmosphere here in the US with that in the Phils? Please, don't make it appear that foreign nurses are not as good as the US-educated nurses. We are allowed to voice out our opinions re: patient care. We have freedom of speech and opinion. And that is true whether you are in USA or in a foreign land.

    In my two previous posts, I stated the one reason why Filipino doctors going to nursing schools is because of the "green card" or immigrant visa. As doctors, they can not migrate to the US but as nurses they can.

    I have never mentioned in my posts that foreign educated nurses are not as good as the US educated nurses. In fact, foreign educated nurses must meet the same standards set by ANA and the different agencies in the US. Also must pass the NCLEX.

    We may have different cultures but we all have the same caring hearts that's why we chose, one time or another, to become nurses.
  6. by   Rep
    Quote from jax
    I believe that Rep was discussing the cultural differences between your two countries - I didn't see anything offensive in her/his post.

    jax

    Thank you for understanding my point.
  7. by   suzanne4
    Rep,
    Have you been away or just hiding? Haven't seen you posting recently..
    Have a great evening..........
  8. by   Rep
    Quote from suzanne4
    Rep,
    Have you been away or just hiding? Haven't seen you posting recently..
    Have a great evening..........
    Suzanne,

    Well, I am just here except that I was so busy these past few days that I was not able to check my emails and the surf this site. The pharmaceutical company where I work is launching a new product in my territory so I have to coordinate my doctor clients for the schedule, venue and etc. We are launching here a product for allergic rhinitis. Aleva ( Ebastine ) is the name.
    Our launching date is on June 15 but I have to prepare early.

    Have a great day ahead!
  9. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    sounds like crying sour grapes to me if you don't make the cut...typical . competition is what makes that field excellent! your complaining about foreign mds being deceitful cuz they usually don't disclose their prior credentials has no merit! in fact...i like to know why it is they have to disclose that information to the schools or to you? that's like saying one who obtained a juris doctor degree but failed to pass their bar exam have to disclose that should they want...no need to change career path! how about that stockbroker who is tired of their career? should they be denied entrance into crna school if they, (operative phrase) *went back* & obtained their rn license? should it matter if they made millions (or close to it) working in finance? i don't understand your point...wtf's the difference? does it irritate you cuz were talkin' about foreign mds...specifically pilipino ones ? perhaps their desire to be physicians here is gone...especially with all of the hurdles in place.

    don't get peeved if these foreign mds *go back to school*, obtain their rn degrees/licensure, practice in critical care for the prescribed amount of years (1-2) & apply & then accepted into crna school. not's like the schools are accepting substandard students...they're not!!! but your post suggests otherwise...as if foreign mds aren't as educated as the us one simply cuz they don't want to....whatever their reasons maybe ....be it financial, time consuming, or less liability in terms of mal practice insurance or can't pass that damn usmle. btw....how many times can one apply & take that exam anyway? that right there could be a factor if it's like one or two times then you have to go to medical school all over again...someone with that info please tell me cuz i don't know that answer. anyhoo...i personally know quite a few anesthesiologists that would luv to give-up their licenses & go the crna route just because of mal practice premiums! many mds are leaving pa cuz of high mal practice insurance premiums.

    quite frankly...i find your post to be whiny, insulting, & without merit :angryfire. i strongly feel it's none of anyone's business if one holds/held a md license in another state...let alone country if they meet current admission requirements. now if people were being accepted other than on their true merit (transcripts from an accredited nursing school & proof of employment in cc)...then you may have something there....the only other way i see any & all mds disclosing their licenses would be for any disciplinary action(s) taken against said license(s) for mal practice or neglect.

    since that's not the case here....just make sure you're up to par so that you get-in & then pass successfully....& stop crying/whinnying/worrying about perfectly eligible crna candidates.

    cheers!
    moe
    Last edit by SKM-NURSIEPOOH on May 22, '04
  10. by   TheBigBadDog
    Quote from skm-nursiepooh
    sounds like crying sour grapes to me if you don't make the cut...typical . competition is what makes that field excellent! your complaining about foreign mds being deceitful cuz they usually don't disclose their prior credentials has no merit! in fact...i like to know why it is they have to disclose that information to the schools or to you? that's like saying one who obtained a juris doctor degree but failed to pass their bar exam have to disclose that should they want...no need to change career path! how about that stockbroker who is tired of their career? should they be denied entrance into crna school if they, (operative phrase) *went back* & obtained their rn license? should it matter if they made millions (or close to it) working in finance? i don't understand your point...wtf's the difference? does it irritate you cuz were talkin' about foreign mds...specifically pilipino ones ? perhaps their desire to be physicians here is gone...especially with all of the hurdles in place.

    don't get peeved if these foreign mds *go back to school*, obtain their rn degrees/licensure, practice in critical care for the prescribed amount of years (1-2) & apply & then accepted into crna school. not's like the schools are accepting substandard students...they're not!!! but your post suggests otherwise...as if foreign mds aren't as educated as the us one simply cuz they don't want to....whatever their reasons maybe ....be it financial, time consuming, or less liability in terms of mal practice insurance or can't pass that damn usmle. btw....how many times can one apply & take that exam anyway? that right there could be a factor if it's like one or two times then you have to go to medical school all over again...someone with that info please tell me cuz i don't know that answer. anyhoo...i personally know quite a few anesthesiologists that would luv to give-up their licenses & go the crna route just because of mal practice premiums! many mds are leaving pa cuz of high mal practice insurance premiums.

    quite frankly...i find your post to be whiny, insulting, & without merit :angryfire. i strongly feel it's none of anyone's business if one holds/held a md license in another state...let alone country if they meet current admission requirements. now if people were being accepted other than on their true merit (transcripts from an accredited nursing school & proof of employment in cc)...then you may have something there....the only other way i see any & all mds disclosing their licenses would be for any disciplinary action(s) taken against said license(s) for mal practice or neglect.

    since that's not the case here....just make sure you're up to par so that you get-in & then pass successfully....& stop crying/whinnying/worrying about perfectly eligible crna candidates.

    cheers!
    moe
    i completely disagree! first, if you look at the admissions for crna the are required to disclose all previous education! second, why shouldn't we protect our jobs and labor markets? otherwise, you are on the race to the bottom! the worldwide supply of labor for any occupation will always cause an oversupply if you have no barriers! why, because the wages in the us are 10-100 times more then in other parts of the world. your idea that it is "just competition" is correct, this is the same "competition" that all of the major corporations in the world have learned how to avoid to make economic profits. that is why they are multi-billion dollar companies, without barriers competition would have long since have driven them out of business.
  11. by   audqyee
    To those who don't know anything better, foreign nurses are payed the same salaries are US nursing graduates. This does not, in any way, keep the salary of nurses down. From what I've heard, the immigration office are no longer offering any immigrant visa as of now (2010) for foreign nurses, only working visas. Still, the number of nurses are still in short supply. Rural hospitals are forced to hire foreign nurses to fill in their slots because no nurses would come work for them, almost all nurses dream of living in a big city. Also, as pointed out early in the comments, it's not THAT easy getting into the US. You have to pass more than just a couple of exams and accreditation.

    As for people who are talking about foreign MD's, clearly you don't know a thing about the process. Their medical education is recognized as long as it's accredited by the ECFMG. As for their specialties, they have to redo their residencies. There are also foreign MD's who apply to American residencies on a H1B (working) visa. That will be the only time the government is paying for them, as all medical residents in the country including American medical graduates.

    For those FMG (foreign medical graduates) that didn't pass the USMLE, imagine going back to the basic sciences after you've been practicing for many years including the residency period. The USMLE step 1 is the hardest for them since it concentrates on the basic sciences. The second and third USMLE's might be better for them. Try studying for the USMLE while feeding a family without any help. Also, depending on the circumstances like having your wife as a stay at home mom because you have <5 year old kids running around, it would be impractical to pursue a medical residency for 3 years or more for 80-hours a week for<60k annually. Others may be contented by it, while others will pursue a more practical approach, the CRNA route. There are also those who are just too tired of having to back through all those years of residencies again. Also, in my opinion, hiding their MD credentials does not mean deception, it just means that they don't want to brag, or that others may view them differently and interpret their skills differently like some of you here who thinks they're incompetent, or that it's really none of your business. The CRNA admissions committee still have their intelligence if you don't know, to accept American graduates and view and accept candidates fairly depending on their circumstances.

    Do you really think that it's not degrading for them to be called a nurse when they're MD's or that a young doctors orders them around when they're the big-shot surgeons?

    The truth is, there are a lot more reasons behind their actions. You're only just scratching the surface. In my opinion, hiding their MD's really means humility. You have to get over yourselves in thinking that only American nursing graduates can do the job perfectly. That's arrogant thinking.

    Oh, FYI, I'm also an American nursing graduate. I know these things because I have friends and have been reading a lot in the studentdoctor forums.
  12. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from audqyee
    To those who don't know anything better, foreign nurses are payed the same salaries are US nursing graduates. This does not, in any way, keep the salary of nurses down. From what I've heard, the immigration office are no longer offering any immigrant visa as of now (2010) for foreign nurses, only working visas. Still, the number of nurses are still in short supply. Rural hospitals are forced to hire foreign nurses to fill in their slots because no nurses would come work for them, almost all nurses dream of living in a big city. Also, as pointed out early in the comments, it's not THAT easy getting into the US. You have to pass more than just a couple of exams and accreditation.

    As for people who are talking about foreign MD's, clearly you don't know a thing about the process. Their medical education is recognized as long as it's accredited by the ECFMG. As for their specialties, they have to redo their residencies. There are also foreign MD's who apply to American residencies on a H1B (working) visa. That will be the only time the government is paying for them, as all medical residents in the country including American medical graduates.

    For those FMG (foreign medical graduates) that didn't pass the USMLE, imagine going back to the basic sciences after you've been practicing for many years including the residency period. The USMLE step 1 is the hardest for them since it concentrates on the basic sciences. The second and third USMLE's might be better for them. Try studying for the USMLE while feeding a family without any help. Also, depending on the circumstances like having your wife as a stay at home mom because you have <5 year old kids running around, it would be impractical to pursue a medical residency for 3 years or more for 80-hours a week for<60k annually. Others may be contented by it, while others will pursue a more practical approach, the CRNA route. There are also those who are just too tired of having to back through all those years of residencies again. Also, in my opinion, hiding their MD credentials does not mean deception, it just means that they don't want to brag, or that others may view them differently and interpret their skills differently like some of you here who thinks they're incompetent, or that it's really none of your business. The CRNA admissions committee still have their intelligence if you don't know, to accept American graduates and view and accept candidates fairly depending on their circumstances.

    Do you really think that it's not degrading for them to be called a nurse when they're MD's or that a young doctors orders them around when they're the big-shot surgeons?

    The truth is, there are a lot more reasons behind their actions. You're only just scratching the surface. In my opinion, hiding their MD's really means humility. You have to get over yourselves in thinking that only American nursing graduates can do the job perfectly. That's arrogant thinking.

    Oh, FYI, I'm also an American nursing graduate. I know these things because I have friends and have been reading a lot in the studentdoctor forums.
    You do know this thread is 6 years old?
  13. by   RN543
    Quote from wtbcrna
    You do know this thread is 6 years old?
    Wow... I just literally laughed out loud... was thinking the same thing. Guess someone was in the mood to argue.

close