Does it bother CRNA's that MDA's get so much more...?

[ICU, RN, BSN, B.S.]

Hey guys,

I'm not a CRNA yet. I want to be. I just got hired in a MICU/SICU. I was just wondering if it bothered any CRNA's the fact that MDs who practice anesthesia get paid wayy more for doing the same thing? I know some hospitals/facilities require the MDA oversee the CRNA, but does that equate to a couple hundred K more?

I don't know...I just feel CRNA's are not compensated enough for the ENORMOUS amount of responsibility and knowledge they hold.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

good morning.......

http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/features/articles/establishing-an-independent-nurse-practitioner-practice.aspx?cp=2

a major question to consider is the scope of independent np practice in the state in which you practice. forty states currently have statutory or regulatory requirements for physician collaboration, direction, or supervision. however, only eleven states (including the district of columbia) have independent prescriptive authority that does not require physician involvement or delegation.6 if your practice is not located in one of these enlightened states, carefully read and clarify the policies regarding collaboration or supervision of your practice and the regulation of your prescriptive authority. developing a collaborative agreement with a physician and creating appropriate protocols, including protocols for controlled substances, are other areas to investigate if this is a state requirement for np practice.

but alas, i cannot find them........so i surrender!:bowingpur

i respect all crna's. i had no intention of sparking such a debate.........i never said crna's are bad practioners, i never said they lead to more complaints, i never said they cause bad outcomes,i respect and admire crna's.

i made a statement about if you want to be paid like a md go to school and be one and repeated a personal experience of crna requirements in the surrounding hospitals and can't find "the law"...so i concede.......

peace.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

[quote=rnbydesign;5459873

wrong...crna masters is at minimum 28 months in length and up(mine is 30). crnas do not..have to be supervised by md's and some do provide anesthesia in open heart, transplant etc.-independently. so yes-possibly they are gettinng cheated of some earning power. it definetely is not on the job training any longer, as the crna's need to be fully functioning independent providers of safe anesthesia. peace.

please......enough. your personal experience in your state is different.....accept that mine is different for me. if you carefully read my post 2.5 years school = 12+12+6=30

if you see on my statement a straight masters program is 15-18 months and then anesthesia school another 2.5. quote] a crna is a specialized nurse. you have 4 years bsn, 15-18 months masters, i year critical care experience and 2.5 years crna school. end quote] and then whatever residency program that follows.

http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/features/articles/establishing-an-independent-nurse-practitioner-practice.aspx?cp=2

a major question to consider is the scope of independent np practice in the state in which you practice. forty states currently have statutory or regulatory requirements for physician collaboration, direction, or supervision. however, only eleven states (including the district of columbia) have independent prescriptive authority that does not require physician involvement or delegation.

i surrender.......:bowingpur

[I_See_You_RN]

why are we confusing NP and CRNA. They are two different things. Some states including yours do allow CRNA's prescriptive authority for the case, but not like an NP. NP's and CRNA's have very different collaborative practices.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

why are we confusing NP and CRNA. They are two different things. Some states including yours do allow CRNA's prescriptive authority for the case, but not like an NP. NP's and CRNA's have very different collaborative practices.

I have already surrendered.......I'm old enough to know when to cry Uncle! I have far passed my area of expertise and refer all further questions to wtbcrna (if you don't mind)........but I will continue to follow for prosperity sake....

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

The issue of independence, prescriptive authority, exact length of time of the program is moot to answering the OP's question.

Do we all feel like we should make more money ? Yes !!!

Then if you want more money, get the education - there is nothing stopping you from getting your MD.

Much like LPNs that complain that they do "the same thing" as RNs, and yet make less. What you are being paid for is what you know, and the training that you have received. You can "be bothered" or you can do something about it, and get the education so that you can get the pay.

[lmdscd]

AS I have stated earlier ,I personally was test with a student MDA and we both missed same questions . When it comes to providing anesthesia both know about the same from my point of view . But it sure is a political storm out there, bad apples to both sides .Health care teams to me are a waste of money and all it does is save MDA's bottom lines.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

The issue of independence, prescriptive authority, exact length of time of the program is moot to answering the OP's question.

Do we all feel like we should make more money ? Yes !!!

Then if you want more money, get the education - there is nothing stopping you from getting your MD.

Much like LPNs that complain that they do "the same thing" as RNs, and yet make less. What you are being paid for is what you know, and the training that you have received. You can "be bothered" or you can do something about it, and get the education so that you can get the pay.

Education does not always = more money. CRNAs make more than a lot of physicians. This is supply and demand market. MDAs usually make more than CRNAs, but CRNAs' average salary is higher than FPs and a lot of general surgeons.

Just because someone goes to medical school does not mean that they will get a residency in anesthesiology. Anesthesiology is very sought after residency.

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

AS I have stated earlier ,I personally was test with a student MDA and we both missed same questions . When it comes to providing anesthesia both know about the same from my point of view . But it sure is a political storm out there, bad apples to both sides .Health care teams to me are a waste of money and all it does is save MDA's bottom lines.

And it doesn't matter. I suspect that there are plenty of LPNs out there that can match or best RNs on questions and practice. They still are going to, in most cases, going to be paid less and hospitals are still going to view/employee them a certain way, no matter the brains.

As far as competitiveness for MDA, if one wants to get the pay, go for it and if they work hard enough and have the aptitude, they will get it. But don't cry about what MDAs get paid, when they have done the work and jumped through the hoops, that you choose not to do.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

And it doesn't matter. I suspect that there are plenty of LPNs out there that can match or best RNs on questions and practice. They still are going to, in most cases, going to be paid less and hospitals are still going to view/employee them a certain way, no matter the brains.

As far as competitiveness for MDA, if one wants to get the pay, go for it and if they work hard enough and have the aptitude, they will get it. But don't cry about what MDAs get paid, when they have done the work and jumped through the hoops, that you choose not to do.

I don't think imdscd had mentioned anything about money just the abilities between the two types of providers. The difference in comparing LVNs/RNs vs MDAs/CRNAs is that CRNAs have numerous studies that show we give equal care as compared to MDAs.

No, hospitals don't necessarily view MDAs/CRNAs differently. There are lots of hospitals that consider CRNAs as part of the medical group, and don't place them under the nursing structure at all. There are also lots of hospitals that use MDAs and CRNAs interchangeably, and the majority of rural hospitals sole anesthetic providers are CRNAs.

No one is "crying" about MDA pay, but before someone that doesn't know anything the history, the laws, or the research about CRNA practice (not to mention the politics) they should at least read the AANA home page before they jump in with both feet and start flaming people. Just my unhumble opinion.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I don't think imdscd had mentioned anything about money just the abilities between the two types of providers. The difference in comparing LVNs/RNs vs MDAs/CRNAs is that CRNAs have numerous studies that show we give equal care as compared to MDAs.

No, hospitals don't necessarily view MDAs/CRNAs differently. There are lots of hospitals that consider CRNAs as part of the medical group, and don't place them under the nursing structure at all. There are also lots of hospitals that use MDAs and CRNAs interchangeably, and the majority of rural hospitals sole anesthetic providers are CRNAs.

No one is "crying" about MDA pay, but before someone that doesn't know anything the history, the laws, or the research about CRNA practice (not to mention the politics) they should at least read the AANA home page before they jump in with both feet and start flaming people. Just my unhumble opinion.

If you mean me.......I though I already surrendered........

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

If you mean me.......I though I already surrendered........

No, I posted who I was responding to. I am not trying to pick on anyone either, but I am trying educate nurses out there that don't know about CRNA practice/practice issues/politics etc.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

No, I posted who I was responding to. I am not trying to pick on anyone either, but I am trying educate nurses out there that don't know about CRNA practice/practice issues/politics etc.

It didn't translate well........I was teasing!!! You are very knowledgeable and a good advocate......