CRNA vs. MDA - pros and cons

[daitheflu]

I am going to graduate with my BSN in December at age 22. It has been my goal for years to become a CRNA. I have thoroughly researched the profession (with help from some great posts on this forum) and I have fallen in love with it. Lately, though, I've been contemplating attending medical school. Reasons include: 1) I currently have no constraints (single, no children, geographic freedom, funds available) to attending medical school 2) The desire to further my education to a higher level 3) To "be all that I can be" 4) I am interested in many medical specialties including anesthesia, emergency medicine, surgery, orthopedics, and radiology

I love nursing and everything that it represents. I am just at a crossroads in my life and I am trying to make the best decision possible for my future. I've had doctors tell me that CRNA is a wise decision and to not become a doctor. I have also read about CRNA's that proceeded to return to school and become MDA's.

My primary concern is that I do not want work to completely overwhelm my life...I would prefer a fair balance between work and other aspects of life such as family.

In the following questions I refer to only MDA's, but feel free to answer the questions regarding MD's in general.

1) What would you say were some advantages/disadvantages of being a CRNA over an MDA (ex. lifestyle, respect, work opportunities, etc.)?

2) If a person has the opportunity to become either a CRNA or a MDA, which one would you recommend?

[CerebralCRNA]

When I think of AA's and CRNA's I think of swingers, making good money, the work isn't too hard and their hours aren't that bad. They clock out when the sun is setting in the evening and drive away in little sporty convertibles to disco clubs or w/e while the MD is left grumbling at all the paper work like ebenezer scrooge. All while the state and insurance companies are colluding to take another bite out of scrooge's wallet, and lowering him closer and closer to the position of the AA's and CRNA's, except they didn't incur as much debt and time spent schooling and busting one's ass to be top notch.

Again, total nonsense..........................

Who is moderating here again? Wow, I am speechless............

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

Thread started in 2005...our volunteer mods off today.

Pointing out misperceptions with factual info more helpful than personal comment alone... please help enlighten this first post newbie member.

[ghillbert, MSN, NP]

Their whole post sounds like spam. Really.. an AA should be able to become an MD with one extra year's studying? And er.. skip med school? Okaaaay....

[CerebralCRNA]

Thread started in 2005...our volunteer mods off today.

Pointing out misperceptions with factual info more helpful than personal comment alone... please help enlighten this first post newbie member.

Well I certainly am not a swinger...... it is obvious that this is a first post made to insult CRNAs by possibly an AA or an MD.

[alterego33]

Cerebral, you and I must be joined at the hip.

This thread is ridiculous and should be closed. The OP is offering an opinion that has no factual basis and is totally irrelevant as well as being insulting to the entire CRNA profession.

I would be happy to answer a reasonable question, this is simply not one.

AE

[shpongle]

Hello,

I was exaggerating for comedic effects. But I really do think an AA or CRNA should be able to become an Anesthesiologist with less schooling than someone who just got out of undergrad and into med school. The experience of either has to be better than no experience right? Their education should allow them to waive out of a few classes from med school right? CRNA's abilities are legally equivalent to Anesthesiologist's except there should be a way for CRNA's to get the same pay, by maybe a little more schooling for example.

I do think of AA's as an MD's assault on CRNA's. MD's want and need the help, yet they don't like CRNA's sovereignty, autonomy; ability to replace them.

I've heard a lot of good arguments. AA's might serve as competition to CRNA's, but that would only be in areas where there is not a shortage for Gas providers, which would in turn free up CRNA's to provide in areas that most need it, such as rural areas where anesthesiologists are not currently (which is the definition of a shortage); and they will receive no resistance from AA's because AA's won't be where Anesthesiologists aren't. Rural areas are less able to afford the 300k salary of an anesthesiologist, or attract them, but a CRNA is a little more in grasp.

I do not think it would be good for CRNA's to completely win the war against MD's because then it would lower the pay of CRNA's. The high pay of MD's makes the less high pay of CRNA's look attractive. But if you completely wipe out the MD, show that you are equivalent, that it's a nurse job and not a physician job, that would deem nurse pay for a nurse job. Even though you might be providing equal service as before, the overlords of the healthcare would love any excuse to lower pay, and if there are only CRNA's left, it will just be CRNA's trying to low ball each other; accept less and less pay until they are getting paid slightly higher than RN's. Or maybe AA's will get autonomy like CRNA's did, and you guys will be in the place of the MD's; with too much power and bloated salaries, with AA's trying to overthrow you. The one's who will be hurt from this are the patients who would get dealt less and less skilled and educated providers until we have illegal immigrants fresh off the boat with no education gassing people ----------[\\(***!!!disclaimer!!!: exaggeration for comedic effects***)//]-------, and the money saved would go to the middle men insurance companies. The bloated salary of the MD is a buffer for your bloated salary, if you get rid of them, you are the next target.

The argument I find disgusting which is aimed at AA's is: If you want to provide anesthesia you should have become a CRNA, but as it is now, we will not let you practice. Isn't that what MD's said to you guys? If you want to practice anesthesia autonomously, why didn't you just become an MD, why should CRNA's have autonomy?

The paths you go are not exactly the same, so it either shows that parts of one's education is superfluous or that parts of the other is lacking. What is it? You are able to do the same job, yet you two are different and not equal. And this should not just be reflected in the pay, because you are still exposing the patients to the lack of training. But if CRNA's are completely able to fulfill the job of the MD, why is there a need for the MD?

There should be a more direct path to becoming an anesthesiologist, cutting out the fat, and adding in the necessary meat (if it is not already represented by CRNA's). Being a CRNA sounds very appealing, basically an anesthesiologist called by a different name with not too bad of a pay reduction. Though I don't like all that fluff nurse ******** I'd have to go through, like "nurse theory" or "nurse management" or whatever other classes you guys have to take; though autonomy is a very powerful incentive.

I think MD's and insurance companies don't intend to raise the quality of care, but will expand the margin of MD to AA until hospitals are run completely by AA's and have a token MD (maybe a dead one kept in a locker somewhere) to fulfill the legal obligations. MD's like this because it keeps their spot safe, allows them to get high pay for lower work by exploiting the AA's. AA's lack autonomy, but I think they will be able to get jobs under the table as autonomous anesthesiologists (I heard of a private surgeon training RN's to do the job of anesthesiologists for less pay before HAHA). Or possibly gain autonomy through lobbyists etc. the way CRNA's did, maybe by way of further certification (a year or test as I suggested).

Because what is med school? Basically two years of lecture, 2 years of clinical, and then 4 years of residency to become an MDA. The residency could be represented by years of work by the AA, the 2 years of lecture by the 2+ years of AA schooling, and the clinical could also be represented by the years worked, or by further schooling. I do not think med school should be necessary for an AA or CRNA to become an MDA.

Also, I am neither AA, MD, or CRNA at the moment. (Got license revoked, and now I do surgery in back alleys with a hammer and coat hanger)

[jdpete]

that was quite honestly the biggest bunch of bull**** ever composed---an MDA staying in-house is incomprehensible, much less staying to do "paperwork"---while I go off in a sportscar leaving in the evening hours? I will never read here again if this is the idiotic crap posted here---my gosh this board should educate serious nurses about the wonderful profession they have the opportunity to join-what the hell was that?-

[nurselizk]

Hello,

I do not think it would be good for CRNA's to completely win the war against MD's because then it would lower the pay of CRNA's.

The one's who will be hurt from this are the patients who would get dealt less and less skilled and educated providers until we have illegal immigrants fresh off the boat with no education gassing people ----------[\\(***!!!disclaimer!!!: exaggeration for comedic effects***)//]-------, and the money saved would go to the middle men insurance companies.

AA's lack autonomy, but I think they will be able to get jobs under the table as autonomous anesthesiologists (I heard of a private surgeon training RN's to do the job of anesthesiologists for less pay before HAHA).

Or possibly gain autonomy through lobbyists etc. the way CRNA's did, maybe by way of further certification (a year or test as I suggested).

I do not think med school should be necessary for an AA or CRNA to become an MDA.

Also, I am neither AA, MD, or CRNA at the moment.

I'm completely speechless. These are baseless opinions. What is your goal here? And what IS your background? You've managed to insult AA's, MDA's and CRNA's. And perhaps you could inform those of us who thought NURSE anesthesia predated physician anesthesia as a serious specialty, exactly how and when CRNA's gained autonomy through lobbyists.

[shpongle]

I'm not trying to insult anyone, so don't get your panties up in a bunch. I was just giving my opinion which has been heavily influenced by what I have read here and the legislation I have come across and the AANA, etc. and just some discussion points, mixed in with a bit of humor...

Also those "nurses" you all so vehemently site are actually physicians, just because they were female does not automatically make them nurses....

Also, just because nurses in the past were able to do this does not mean ANYTHING. Not too long ago Barbers were the main providers of surgery, what does that mean? Things have changed, standards of education have changed. Before common anesthesia was a bottle of triple x whiskey, and before that wounds were thought of as evil and needed to be punished, so physicians would pour boiling tar on wounds to purge the body by combating the evil.

Also, just because you go by the same name means nothing.

I think I will become a barber and do surgery. But when asked I will say it's in the scope of barbering and not in the scope of medicine.

[foraneman]

Shpongle~

We can't being to address the inaccurate, misinformed, illogical, factually deficient, unethical or contradictory elements of your posts. I am being serious when I say 90% falls into one of these categories. Your stated motivations for entering the field are additionally appalling. I do not think you have to consider your options here any way since you are YEARS away from resuscitating your academic performance to the point you would qualify for ANY of the careers you mention. The required GPA is the same across the board to compete for admission to medical/crna/aa school.

I'm currently an undergrad, considering either an AA or (yeah right) med school to become an anesthesiologist or one of the other specialties suggested via the R.O.A.D. to medicine. My GPA is probably too crappy for me to get into a med school. I'm a Junior at UCB and my GPA is around 2.5 (yes I know, it's horrible, but I guess I just didn't really care too much, bad study habits, plus a lot of other excuses, but whatever)

You mention power, money and lifestyle as reasons for entering the field of anesthesia. You express no desire to care for sick people nor any apparent interest in health care itself. You want the fastest and easiest route possible. I guarantee you that the field of anesthesia does not want you, regardless of whatever path to it you might choose. Do something that you are actually interested in.

[foraneman]

I'm not trying to insult anyone, so don't get your panties up in a bunch. I was just giving my opinion which has been heavily influenced by what I have read here and the legislation I have come across and the AANA, etc. and just some discussion points, mixed in with a bit of humor...

Also those "nurses" you all so vehemently site are actually physicians, just because they were female does not automatically make them nurses....

Also, just because nurses in the past were able to do this does not mean ANYTHING. Not too long ago Barbers were the main providers of surgery, what does that mean? Things have changed, standards of education have changed. Before common anesthesia was a bottle of triple x whiskey, and before that wounds were thought of as evil and needed to be punished, so physicians would pour boiling tar on wounds to purge the body by combating the evil.

Also, just because you go by the same name means nothing.

I think I will become a barber and do surgery. But when asked I will say it's in the scope of barbering and not in the scope of medicine.

Sober up.

[CerebralCRNA]

I'm not trying to insult anyone, so don't get your panties up in a bunch. I was just giving my opinion which has been heavily influenced by what I have read here and the legislation I have come across and the AANA, etc. and just some discussion points, mixed in with a bit of humor...

Also those "nurses" you all so vehemently site are actually physicians, just because they were female does not automatically make them nurses....

Also, just because nurses in the past were able to do this does not mean ANYTHING. Not too long ago Barbers were the main providers of surgery, what does that mean? Things have changed, standards of education have changed. Before common anesthesia was a bottle of triple x whiskey, and before that wounds were thought of as evil and needed to be punished, so physicians would pour boiling tar on wounds to purge the body by combating the evil.

Also, just because you go by the same name means nothing.

I think I will become a barber and do surgery. But when asked I will say it's in the scope of barbering and not in the scope of medicine.

What educational value does this posts provide? Please someone tell me??? Again, someone on here just to bash CRNAs and being allowed to do so.