Attention NC Residents

JJRN · Mar 4, 2005

I hope to work in NC p school. Is there anything a non NC state resident can do to help?

Robb · Mar 4, 2005

Okay guys, here we go again. We're the latest state in which the MDA's are trying to restrict our practice, as well as make it legal for AA's to work here. A bill is currently being introduced into the NC legislature titled "NC Anesthesia Patient Safety and Access Act." I don' t know all the details, but it's my basic understanding that the NCASA is trying to make it seem that we need more supervision, that anesthesia needs to be provided by someone whom they can have more control over. Their proposed solution is AA's. I know in other states it's hard to tell the difference b/t an AA and CRNA within an anesthesia dept. This act makes it seem as if MDA's will be constantly over an AA's shoulder. It attempts to call us as CRNA's unsafe, in not so many words. It also says there is a shortage of anesthesia providers, despite the fact we've increased to FIVE anesthesia schools in our state alone. This bill is a DIRECT ATTACK on our profession, and we will all regret it if it passes!!!
So here's what you need to do. If possible, visit or send a letter to your NC state representative and senator. (from your county or district). You can find this out by going to www.ncleg.net and either entering your zip code or voter's registration number. Once you find out who your legislator's are, at the VERY LEAST give them a call. Here is a sample of what to say:" Hello, my name is _______ and I am a CRNA (or CRNA student) in your voting district. I'm calling to ask that you NOT support the NC anesthesia pt safety and access act. My contact information is ______, and I would be happy to give you or your staff more information regarding this recently proposed bill."
Even if you're not into politics, just consider this: if this passes and AA's come into NC, we will no longer be in as much demand and your salary will eventually go down. Maybe money will motivate you to call if simply supporting the profession of nurse anesthesia isn't enough.
So, before all the AA's on here flame me, just chill out. This act basically says you guys are incompetent without an MDA holding your hand. Be pi**ed at me if you want, but I'm just trying to protect my future profession and career.
If anyone wants more info, visit the NCANA website. Thanks!

I sure do hope that there is a great effort to oppose this legislation. There is NO reason to restrict the practice of CRNAs or any other APN. The issue always comes down to MDs wanting control. The ANA is and always has been a thorn in the AMAs side. However, without RNs in various roles, they could not perform their roles. It should be a joint effort.

Bottom line....get involved....make the call or write a letter. CRNAs need to take notice here.

skipaway · Mar 4, 2005

Here is the bill in its entirety:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Sessions/2005/Bills/House/HTML/H503v0.html

Please call your reps: Also, if possible, it's ok to call the members of the Health committee too. They are the ones that will pass on it or pass it through to be voted on. Even if you are not a resident in their district, say that you are a CRNA or CRNA student from North Carolina. They need to hear what the citizens or our state feel about this bill.

Unfortunately, one of the sponsors of this bill is Vice Chairman of the Health committee and he is also a physician.

skipaway · Mar 4, 2005

I hope to work in NC p school. Is there anything a non NC state resident can do to help?

Thanks for asking:

1. Give money (any little bit helps) to the NCANA PAC Check out how to send it on the ncana.com website.

2. If you have any relatives in NC, ask them to write or call their representatives

3. If any of you are an SRNA and are going to another school outside of NC, yet you are a NC resident, call your representatives.

4. Did I mention send Money to the NCANA PAC??

skipaway

jwk · Mar 4, 2005

Okay guys, here we go again !

Yep, here we go again. NC is the latest state in which CRNA's are trying to restrict our practice......oops, wrong board.

But hey, now that I'm here.....please note that I am NOT incompetent, nor does ANYONE hold my hand except my wife. And since you admittedly don't know all the details, don't pretend to know everything about me and AA's and what we can do. I'm very, very good at what I do. I will gladly match skills, knowledge, and experience with any of you. Yes, I practice with anesthesiologists, as most of you do - let's not pretend otherwise.

Just remember this is simply about competition. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no patient safety or educational issues or concerns to be raised that are valid. Even the competition argument is invalid. Find me ONE - ONE CRNA that has lost a job because of an AA. You can't - it hasn't happened. There's more than enough business to keep all of us busy for decades.

NCgirl · Mar 4, 2005

Yep, here we go again. NC is the latest state in which CRNA's are trying to restrict our practice......oops, wrong board.
But hey, now that I'm here.....please note that I am NOT incompetent, nor does ANYONE hold my hand except my wife. And since you admittedly don't know all the details, don't pretend to know everything about me and AA's and what we can do. I'm very, very good at what I do. I will gladly match skills, knowledge, and experience with any of you. Yes, I practice with anesthesiologists, as most of you do - let's not pretend otherwise.
Just remember this is simply about competition. Nothing more, nothing less. There are no patient safety or educational issues or concerns to be raised that are valid. Even the competition argument is invalid. Find me ONE - ONE CRNA that has lost a job because of an AA. You can't - it hasn't happened. There's more than enough business to keep all of us busy for decades.

JWK, please read my message again. You will note that I said it's my understanding that it's hard to know who is an AA vs CRNA when they're in the same dept. I am not questioning your abilities. I also said it's the MDA's who are basically saying in this bill that "midlevel" anesthesia providers are unsafe for pts, and that by allowing AA's in, they can keep more supervision over you and yes, basically "hold your hand". THAT'S WHAT THE MDA'S ARE SAYING IN THE BILL, NOT ME! So get angry at them, not me. Of course I don't want competition, why the heck would I. I want job security when I graduate, not other practioner's fighting for the same jobs. It may not have happened yet, but you can't tell me that in the next 30-40 years I'll be working it won't happen.

The point of my post is to encourage people (this is a nurse anesthetist board after all) who are against the bill to contact their legislator. I'm not attacking AA's. But this bill is.

jwk · Mar 4, 2005

JWK, please read my message again. You will note that I said it's my understanding that it's hard to know who is an AA vs CRNA when they're in the same dept. I am not questioning your abilities. I also said it's the MDA's who are basically saying in this bill that "midlevel" anesthesia providers are unsafe for pts, and that by allowing AA's in, they can keep more supervision over you and yes, basically "hold your hand". THAT'S WHAT THE MDA'S ARE SAYING IN THE BILL, NOT ME! So get angry at them, not me. Of course I don't want competition, why the heck would I. I want job security when I graduate, not other practioner's fighting for the same jobs. It may not have happened yet, but you can't tell me that in the next 30-40 years I'll be working it won't happen.
The point of my post is to encourage people (this is a nurse anesthetist board after all) who are against the bill to contact their legislator. I'm not attacking AA's. But this bill is.

In a department with anesthesiologists, they don't hold my hand any more than they do yours. In a department with anesthesiologists, CRNA's and AA's do EXACTLY the same thing - same job description, same responsibilities, same pay for comparable experience.

James Huffman · Mar 4, 2005

2. If you have any relatives in NC, ask them to write or call their representatives

Another suggestion: even if you live in NC, have relatives who are not nurses write, too. A simple note: "I'm a health care consumer, and I ask you NOT to support, etc." No need to write a lot -- a sentence or 2 will do the job quite well.

And if you've written, call your reps as well. I've found that politicians are somewhat more impressed with phone calls because the individual had the guts to speak in person to someone. And they get less calls, too.

Your letters and calls make a difference. This isn't a "big" issue, and most people -- nurses included -- won't contact them. A few contacts make a difference.

Ask for a committment from your reps. As a late US Senator once said, "When I feel the heat, I see the light." You can make a difference.

Jim Huffman, RN

NCgirl · Mar 5, 2005

JWK- I'm very well aware of that. However, the bill is saying otherwise. It proposes that allowing AA's to work here is a good idea, b/c it secures pt safety, since the MDA's will have so much more control over an AA than CRNA. Once again, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING----IT'S WHAT THE BILL SAYS. So get ticked at the ASA who proposed this, not me. You and I know both know what this bill proposes is a bunch of crap as far as an MDA actually supervising an AA more. It just doesn't happen.

jwk · Mar 5, 2005

JWK- I'm very well aware of that. However, the bill is saying otherwise. It proposes that allowing AA's to work here is a good idea, b/c it secures pt safety, since the MDA's will have so much more control over an AA than CRNA. Once again, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING----IT'S WHAT THE BILL SAYS. So get ticked at the ASA who proposed this, not me. You and I know both know what this bill proposes is a bunch of crap as far as an MDA actually supervising an AA more. It just doesn't happen.

Heavy sigh - if YOU currently work in an anesthesiology practice with anesthesiologists in NC, are you not already being supervised to some degree? Certainly if you're doing Medicare patients you are, with all the TEFRA rules. If you are currently in an ACT practice in NC, and with the large number of medical facilities in NC the chances of that are high, you wouldn't even know the difference if AA's were hired, because we would function in exactly the same way as CRNA's are right now.

There appear to be plenty of anesthesia jobs available to go around in NC. There are dozens of open positions just on Gaswork, certainly not the only job listings around. So you have five schools in NC. Obviously, just as with the AA programs, just because one goes to school there, doesn't mean one stays there. I don't know the total number of CRNA's produced each year by these five programs, but I'm sure many of the SRNA's come from out of state and plan on moving back to their home state when they're done.

The proposed bill does NOT say an anesthesiologist must be looking over my shoulder or holding my hand (or even yours!). It does not say that CRNA's are unsafe. These are things that YOU have read into the bill to suit your purposes. You can't argue educational and safety issues, so all you can really do is resort to the "hand-holding" references and a pattern of misinformation or worse, just like your comrades in Florida.

Don't worry, I fully understand you want to keep AA's out of NC by whatever means you can. I don't expect that you would go down without a fight. All you do in the end though is hurt yourself and your profession.

This bill allows AA's in North Carolina. Simple as that. It does NOTHING that changes CURRENT anesthesia practice in North Carolina for CRNA's. It may spell it out in black and white, but it doesn't change anything.

skipaway · Mar 5, 2005

This bill allows AA's in North Carolina. Simple as that. It does NOTHING that changes CURRENT anesthesia practice in North Carolina for CRNA's. It may spell it out in black and white, but it doesn't change anything.

Actually, it's not that simple. There are no laws in NC that state a CRNA needs to be "supervised" by a physician. We work collaborately. There is a big difference. And, we read into the bill b/c that is exactly what the anesthesiologists in our state are saying to the public. We, CRNAs are "unsafe" to practice without a MD looking over our shoulder and they should be scared if the state allows this. The ASA has used this tactic in their battles, thus far. I remember ads in the newspaper saying that if we are not supervised by an anesthesiologist, old people will die. Current practice could change with this bill. Office based CRNAs could loose their jobs b/c it will be interpreted that an anesthesiolgist is needed to do the supervising. In NJ, and FL. the legislators are trying to say that surgeons need advanced anesthesia training if they are to "supervise" the CRNAs in their offices. So, not only are they trying to control my practice, but also those practices of office based physicians!!!! This is not about safety of the citizens of NC, it's about the almighty dollar! We have some of it, they want it all. The North Carolina Board of Nursing control my practice and they do a good job of it. The Board of Medicine, NC General Assembly and the NCASA need to just stay out of it.

respectfully

skipaway