Anesthesiologists being replaced by CRNAs???

Specialties CRNA

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I was vacationing in the tropics a few weeks ago and met three handsome Anesthesiologists while sun bathing at the pool. We all chatted a little until the topic of our professions came up. I told them I was starting nursing school (ABSN Program) in a few weeks & how excited I was. I then proceeded further by saying I also hope to pursue a graduate degree as a CRNA or NP (note at this point I had no idea these guys were anesthesiologists). Why did I mentioned becoming a CRNA, b/c the stares I got from all three were nothing but pure EVIL STARES! By their looks I knew I said something wrong but had no idea what it was until they told me they were Anesthesiologists & fear that CRNAs were taking away their jobs at a cheaper price, and with the new health care laws just passed its going to get worst for them. This was totally unexpected 'cause all I planned to do that day was to relax by the poolside & sip pina coladas all day! However, they went on trying to convince me of all the reasons as to why I should not pursue a CRNA career & that eventually the national anesthesia board (not sure if this was the organization they mentioned) was no longer going to certify CRNA training and eventually they'll be no more training because there is no longer a shortage of Anesthesiologists. The shocker of this whole conversation was two of the anesthesiologists mentioned, with conviction, they wish they had pursue a CRNA career instead where they would have accumulated less debt with almost the same income or they wish they had chosen another specialty.

I was pretty shocked hearing these remarks & would love to hear your opinions :)

I don't know about Admirals, Generals etc, but none of the physicians in my department would want an nurse administering their anesthesia unless the nurse was supervised by an anesthesiologist...and that's a distant choice to having an anesthesiologist do the case 1:1. I'm sure that there are settings where CRNA practice without anesthesiologist supervision; I think that this is unsafe and so does every physician that I know. I'll be scheduling my own surgery soon and the surgeon said that he would not be operating unless an anesthesiologist was managing the case. WTBCRNA: I understand your opinion as a nurse, I just totally disagree that CRNA are safe to practice without anesthesiologist supervision..

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
I don't know about Admirals, Generals etc, but none of the physicians in my department would want an nurse administering their anesthesia unless the nurse was supervised by an anesthesiologist...and that's a distant choice to having an anesthesiologist do the case 1:1. I'm sure that there are settings where CRNA practice without anesthesiologist supervision; I think that this is unsafe and so does every physician that I know. I'll be scheduling my own surgery soon and the surgeon said that he would not be operating unless an anesthesiologist was managing the case. WTBCRNA: I understand your opinion as a nurse, I just totally disagree that CRNA are safe to practice without anesthesiologist supervision..

The difference between your opinion and mine is that I can back mine up with research.

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The difference between your opinion and mine is that I can back mine up with research.

The difference is that your "research" is nursing-driven drivel.............If you want an unsupervised nurse doing your anesthetic, feel free too do so.

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I have noticed whenever the research does not agree with opinion it becomes "nursing" as if nursing were a bad word. What an awesome cogent rational defense!

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Specializes in CRNA.
If you want an unsupervised nurse doing your anesthetic, feel free too do so.

I have had an unsupervised nurse anesthetist do my anesthetic 3 times, both my sons anesthetics, and my mother's.

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and the research is supported by independent organizations including the Institute of Medicine

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
The difference is that your "research" is nursing-driven drivel.............If you want an unsupervised nurse doing your anesthetic, feel free too do so.

Apparently you didn't look at the research because most of it wasn't even done by nurses. Also, why is research only important when you agree with it. Should we throw away all the years of research on how to manage HTN, heart failure etc, just because you don't agree with the research. It is exactly the same thing rather you agree with it or not. The same research has been produced over and over again by different sources with the same results. Independent CRNAs are just as safe as MDAs in providing anesthesia, if you don't like it don't go where independent CRNAs practice.

I am still waiting on you to provide some substantial argument why there shouldn't be independent CRNAs or that they are unsafe.

What exactly is your profession/speciality? I think it is important to know exactly what educational background you are debating from.

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Specializes in Cardiac, Pulmonary, Anesthesia.

Backscatter, since you take physician word as gospel, here are some quotes for you

In fact, a highly respected anesthesiologist, R.K. Stoelting, MD wrote the following in the December 1996 issue of the journal Anesthesia and Analgesia:

"... Unchallenged acceptance of the conclusion that evidence supports a specific method of anesthesia care delivery to be the "safest and most cost-effective" is misleading to patients, colleagues and those responsible for shaping health care delivery policy...

.... Likewise, the participation of certified registered nurse anesthetists (CRNAs) in delivery of anesthesia care would have ceased many years ago if there was evidence that this participation resulted in a less favorable outcome compared with anesthesia personally administered by an anesthesiologist....."

....Judging quality of anesthesia care on the basis of outcome(mortality) is unlikely to show a difference between personal delivery of anesthesia by an anesthesiologist and anesthesia care that includes a CRNA, with or without medical direction..."

Again, from the December 1996 issue of Anesthesia and Analgesia, , J.P. Abenstine, MD and Mark A. Warner, MD state:

"...The argument that superior education and experience will always offer better outcomes is inconsistent with any available data, whether in reference to anesthesia care, obstetrical care, or many other medical and nonmedical activities within society. You may need to be an electrical engineer to design a television, but you don't need to be one to fix one...."

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

I'm a CRNA in an ACT model. Supervision is a medicare formality for BILLING, it has absolutely nothing to do with the delivery of the anesthetic. My supervision consists of a MDA coming by sometime during the case and signing my record. Other than that they run the board, see patients in pre-op and PACU and are used for back up if needed.

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I'm a CRNA in an ACT model. Supervision is a medicare formality for BILLING, it has absolutely nothing to do with the delivery of the anesthetic. My supervision consists of a MDA coming by sometime during the case and signing my record. Other than that they run the board, see patients in pre-op and PACU and are used for back up if needed.

Then you don't even understand the act model. CRNA are nurses, anesthesiologists are physicians. A few misguided CRNA seem to think that they can "work solo"...they can't and it's dangerous; some do in some areas and they "get away with it" (just like most drunk drivers "get away with it". "supervision of a medicare formality"? Any CRNA who thinks that they are in any way, shape or form "equal" to an anesthesiologist is experienceing a dangerous delusion.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Then you don't even understand the act model. CRNA are nurses, anesthesiologists are physicians. A few misguided CRNA seem to think that they can "work solo"...they can't and it's dangerous; some do in some areas and they "get away with it" (just like most drunk drivers "get away with it". "supervision of a medicare formality"? Any CRNA who thinks that they are in any way, shape or form "equal" to an anesthesiologist is experienceing a dangerous delusion.

Prove It.....You can't and we all know you can't. We know the ASA can't and this tirade of untruths is nothing more than arrogance and protection of the bottom line....

Yes, over 500K cases reviewed in the research by several different sources showing no difference in outcomes between MDAs and Independent CRNAs but CRNAs are just getting away with it.....:uhoh3:

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tirade of untruths? it's common sense that unsupervised nurses should NOT be providing ANY anesthesia care..........

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