"Anesthesiologists are gaming the system"

Specialties CRNA

Published

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/309183-anesthesiologists-are-gaming-the-system

To make this whole issue even more absurd are two recent studies published in the journal "Anesthesiology," the official publication of the ASA, and "Anesthesia & Analgesia." In one, communications with "supervising" anesthesiologists were evaluated revealing that less than 2 percent of such communications originated from those being "supervised" in the OR. In the other, the authors revealed significant lapses in the ability to meet the accountability rules as the number of "medically directed" CRNAs increased - lapses which occurred 99 percent of the time! The study also identified a 22-minute delay when anesthesiologists try to meet the guidelines in order to properly bill for medical direction. With Medicare anesthesia provider reimbursement at a rate of $1.43 per minute, and perhaps millions of such delays every year, the waste of Medicare dollars adds up very quickly, even when the criteria can be met. But this is only a small part of the inherent economic fiasco. While patients waits for an anesthesiologist, the standard Operating Room charges are also accumulating at a rate of $25-50 per minute!

The solution to this problem is exquisitely simple. The president, via his HHS Secretary, must eliminate reimbursement for medically directed anesthesia claims other than those incurred when teaching students or residents. All anesthesia professionals privileged to relieve pain and suffering should actually administer anesthetics. As a society we simply cannot afford to have highly trained anesthesiologists, whose residencies are financed by taxpayers, "supervising". If a procedure requires multiple anesthesia providers due to surgical acuity or complexity, the current regulations provide for full reimbursement. The system currently incentivizes inefficiency without any gain in quality or safety, and potentially pays for services not rendered. This change eliminates the waste of millions or even billions of taxpayer-supported health care dollars and the submission of fraudulent claims. This would force anesthesia departments to become more efficient and allow all Americans to receive the same high level of care as our military heroes.

And this would be incorrect.

I do anesthesia all the time for ER providers, family practice providers, cardiologists etc.

Not always a surgeon.

Technically they are the surgeon

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Technically they are the surgeon

No, they would be the consulting provider. I do acute pain consults for hospital inpatients, OB labor consults for analgesia for the midwives or obstetricians, and GI consults on a regular basis none of these providers are necessarily surgeons. They are consulting providers whether they are APNs, PAs, or physicians.

No, they would be the consulting provider. I do acute pain consults for hospital inpatients, OB labor consults for analgesia for the midwives or obstetricians, and GI consults on a regular basis none of these providers are necessarily surgeons. They are consulting providers whether they are APNs, PAs, or physicians.

You guys are killing me. The point is if there is need for anesthesia someone is doing a case. Also, I've circulated a bunch and when an mda does a pain block he is the "surgeon." In the ER if they are performing a procedure they are the "surgeon" on the paperwork. Same goes for all the other apn's. technically on paper they are the "surgeon." Anyway, that is completely besides the point.

Specializes in Anesthesia.

They are only the surgeon for your paperwork not for billing or anything else. It is not semantics. When your refer to a surgeon you are generally referring to someone doing surgery. When I do a block I am still anesthesia not the surgeon.

It really is semantics. This has gone way off topic anyway.

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

I do anesthesia for FNPs and PAs in the ER. I also place central lines for FNPs, PAs and physicians.

I do chronic pain blocks for the above mentioned providers as well.

Occasionally, I actually do the surgery myself while directing a nurse in conscious sedation. :)

You are confusing "paperwork" with the definition of "surgeon" as it relates to anesthesia practice.

Specializes in critcal care, CRNA.
It really is semantics. This has gone way off topic anyway.

No. These terms have legal consequences. I also anesthesia for cardioversion and there is not a surgeon present.

The AHA doesn't support it because some hospitals would prefer to employ CRNA's so they can bill for them and keep a share of the professional fee. The difference in an ACT practice is that same fee pays for services for an anesthesiologist as well as an anesthetist. That's the big myth with those beating the drum for independent CRNA practice - that it would be cheaper. It's not. It's the same.

I believe you guys are correct. I was confusing the wording. I'm man enough to know when I'm wrong.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
The AHA doesn't support it because some hospitals would prefer to employ CRNA's so they can bill for them and keep a share of the professional fee. The difference in an ACT practice is that same fee pays for services for an anesthesiologist as well as an anesthetist. That's the big myth with those beating the drum for independent CRNA practice - that it would be cheaper. It's not. It's the same.

That is incorrect. A lot of the CRNA only departments are managed independently, so the hospitals are not getting a percentage of the work. Even if it was it would be no different than CRNAs working for an ACT where usually only anesthesiologists can become partners and keep the majority or all the profits.

The most expensive to least expensive types of practices are anesthesiologist only practice followed by ACT practices, and then CRNA only practices (mixed independent practices would fall between ACTs and CRNA only practices). This is a fact that is well documented. https://www.aana.com/resources2/research/Documents/nec_mj_10_hogan.pdf That is why you do not see the ASA trying to refute this. This is simple math if you have 4 anesthesia providers doing cases instead of 5 (the 4 CRNAs and 1 MDA) then you are billing for 4 cases at one time instead of 5. There is no possible way that an ACT would ever be as cheap as CRNA only practice or an MDA/CRNA independent practice of comparable size.

That is incorrect. A lot of the CRNA only departments are managed independently, so the hospitals are not getting a percentage of the work. Even if it was it would be no different than CRNAs working for an ACT where usually only anesthesiologists can become partners and keep the majority or all the profits.

The most expensive to least expensive types of practices are anesthesiologist only practice followed by ACT practices, and then CRNA only practices (mixed independent practices would fall between ACTs and CRNA only practices). This is a fact that is well documented. https://www.aana.com/resources2/research/Documents/nec_mj_10_hogan.pdf That is why you do not see the ASA trying to refute this. This is simple math if you have 4 anesthesia providers doing cases instead of 5 (the 4 CRNAs and 1 MDA) then you are billing for 4 cases at one time instead of 5. There is no possible way that an ACT would ever be as cheap as CRNA only practice or an MDA/CRNA independent practice of comparable size.

Your own article proves my point. Revenues (what the payor actually pays) are the same, whether done by MD only, CRNA only, or an ACT group. I think in our area, a Medicare unit is about $17. If it's a 10 unit case, that's $170. If a CRNA alone does the case, it costs Medicare $170. If an MD alone does the case, it costs Medicare $170. If it's done by a doc and anesthetist in an ACT practice, the cost to Medicare is $170. WHERE IS THE SAVINGS?????

Specializes in Anesthesia, Pain, Emergency Medicine.

Basic math as was depicted in the charts.

Let me break it down in an even more basic format.

MDA + crna (4 cases): cost 20(mda) 10(crna)=60, Cases pay 100. Profit is 40

CRNA solo(4 cases): cost 40, cases pay 100. Profit is 60.

This is very basic but should help you understand the math behind it. So if the CRNA is employed, the hospital either saves money or makes more money depending on variables of course.

If it is a group, the group either saves money or makes more money, again depending on the variables.

Very simplistic but basically the same concept.

BTW Revenue is NOT the same as profit.

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