Yale GEPN vs BSN + Frontier for CNM

Endebted_Forever · May 5, 2014

Frontier is really legendary for women's health. Have you talked to their admissions people? They are so fantastic.

If I could do it over again, I would totally do my degree with them. Very reasonable price, excellent teaching, good cohort bonding.

My advice would be that you should pay as little for your RN/BSN portion of your degree as possible.

queenanneslace, ADN, MSN, APRN, CNM · May 5, 2014

My advice would be that you should pay as little for your RN/BSN portion of your degree as possible.

I'm going to second this statement! There are ample opportunities to spend considerable sums of money on the RN (be it BSN, ABSN, graduate entry RN) portion of your education. I would caution anyone to think twice about this, especially if end goal is to become an APRN. Being addled with debt upon graduation will limit your options for work.

Also, there are excellent ADN programs out there - even though hospitals are restricting new hires to BSN grads. If you choose carefully, you will not be shorting yourself on your education by selecting a more economical option. Make sure whatever RN program you choose is accredited- this is often a requirement of graduate programs.

There are MANY threads about the pros/cons of direct-entry to graduate level nursing and accelerated programs for APRNs on Allnurses. I suggest you do a little searching around this site - you'll find lots of opinions and information.

scarykarrey · May 22, 2014

Isn't it true, too, that Frontier requires 1 year of nursing experience before admission? So, you'd need to go the ADN route anyway, if you're wanting to attend that school, so that you could work for a year as a nurse before enrolling in the bridge program or the MSN.

kcparker · May 22, 2014

I did the Yale GEPN program, now have one year to go in the WHNP/NMW track. Background in art and public health, pushing 40, two kids and long-suffering husband in tow, uprooted from the Midwest to go to Yale. I did not feel like taking 5 years to get an ADN or accelerated BSN, work a year, then go back to school for two more years to get the MSN -- too much time for my old bones to wait. So, I did it the faster, more expensive way, but the way that I can fully focus on my learning and not work part-time and go to school, which some people do as BSNs coming in our program just for the Master's portion. Also, with two small kids, I did not want to do a low-residency with lots of plane commuting.

I could write reams about YSN, but I would say that you should come visit the school if you want to know more. You can come sit in on classes, talk to the dean of student affairs, current students, dept chairs, everyone is pretty accessible and down to earth. They are good about supporting parents in the program, and I appreciated that they do recognize the value of having people with different life experiences in the programs. I think you would be a great candidate for the program, with your background. Be aware that this is now a combined WHNP/NMW program, so only a good fit if you want to do midwifery and women's health. We have a really forward-thinking program chair -- the YSN midwives are starting a Center for Physiologic Birth at the hospital where they practice, she has a Plant-based health series of courses that are taught at the West Campus Farm, and I think she is doing good things with the dept. Really, you should just come see/talk to people there if you want to know if it will be a good fit for you. No program is perfect, but I have felt from the first time I visited that this was the right path for me.

I think Frontier is good if you have nursing experience. It is also a LOT cheaper than YSN. My preceptor last semester did the Frontier program, but she had many years as a L&B nurse and nurse manager under her belt already. She liked it, and they pay their preceptors, so their students usually get local preceptors and sometimes displace students from schools who have not traditionally paid preceptors (an unsavory peek at the soft white underbelly of midwifery training). And if the students who went to the ACNM meeting last week are anything to go by, they love their program. Talk to some grads from there too.

finally, we need more midwives -- OBs and CNMs are both aging -- 20% of the ACNM is going to be over 65 in the next 5-10 years. You WILL be needed, and you will find work. Human nature being what it is, midwives and morticians will always have job security. :)

CNMidwife2Be · Jun 10, 2014

Just wanted to add my experience- I did an accelerated BSN at a state school and then went directly to Frontier. I have a background as a doula and childbirth educator but never worked as a nurse. Frontier accepts you w a year of maternity related experience (doula, CBE lactation ed/counselor) in lieu of nursing. I have many classmates that have little or no nursing experiencing and went straight through. So its def not necessary to have lots of nursing. I've talked with a number of current Yale students and also a recent Yale grad and feel that the programs are at least comparable - neither perfect but both with strengths and ultimately an ability to turn out strong midwives.

I love the history at Frontier. Going down to Hyden was nothing short of magical - seeing first hand what Mary B. created and hearing Kitty Ernst give an impassioned speech about physiological birth - truly an amazing experience. There's also a real sense of family among frontier students and midwives and although it's mostly distance there are opportunities to connect. I met two girls at the orientation in Kentucky that have become two of my closest friends. We Skype almost daily. There are also case days every few months. They're held in students homes or cafés in your area and students in clinicals present cases for group discussion. Frontier tries to arrange them regularly in all areas of the country so that people don't have to drive too far to there.

The core midwifery courses have been excellent. There is a real feminist perspective and an emphasis on physiological birth in the midwifery courses. My profs have been excellent.

One concern many students have is finding a preceptor. The reality is it can be difficult - there aren't enough for the number of students. But in my area the Yale students are also having trouble. I spoke w a couple girls at Yale who had to delay clinicals because Yale hadn't found a placement for them. And apparently Yale students cannot also contact potential preceptors. I'm actually grateful that I can do the legwork because I can find midwives who look like a good fit and write them myself. I do already have one site lined up.

The online component is both freeing and a little lonely. I really enjoy classroom lectures- so I miss that experience. But I also love that I can watch the lectures at my local cafe and get started at any time of day. I have my two close friends and we study together via Skype. Some lectures are pre-recorded and some are held live where you can type or talk to the instructor live, which is nice.

The pace is kind of crazy. 11 weeks on and two weeks off (which never feels like enough) x about a year and a few months, if you're full time. Then an average of 9 months of clinicals. Frontier is unique in that we do all didactic work up front and then all clinicals together. Personally I really love this approach. I like that I'll really understand what I'm seeing once I'm in clinicals. I've heard this also makes us desirable to preceptors because our comfort level is very high. I also like focusing on book work now and knowing that I'll be able dive full time into clinicals without worrying about anything else. In nursing school and in many midwifery programs you do clinicals that correspond to the book work. Some people feel this helps cement the material - but personally it made me feel scattered. I didn't feel solid enough w the coursework to appreciate corresponding clinical experience. But I imagine this is probably and individualized thing and depends on what type of learner you are.

In short. I love Frontier. Im happy that I chose this program and feel it's great for me. I'm also glad that I spent as little as possible on my BSN and that Frontier is quite affordable when compared to a lot of other programs out there.

Feel free to PM me w questions. Hope this helps! : )

mamagui · Jun 10, 2014

Human nature being what it is, midwives and morticians will always have job security. :)

That is an excellent point :up: