will this kick me out of nursing school?!

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Hi,

I've been accepted into a nursing program and will start in December.

My problem is this-when I was 17, I got into a bit of trouble with the law (a petty retail theft and a disorderly conduct) My lawyer, the court, and a juvenile probation officer have all told me that my record is sealed, no one will ever know about any of this after I turned 18, and even on applications, etc., I could deny the existence of a criminal background.

During enrollment, my state criminal record check came back completely clean. (Pennsylvania) After seeing this, and following the advice of my lawyer, I told the school I had no criminal background.

Then, I came on this forum and read that the BON could see sealed records. After contacting the Bon and getting a completely unsatisfactory response, (they just said be honest on my application for a license) my head is spinning. I have no problem being honest with the Bon, or even with the school, I'm just afraid they will not allow me to go there, thinking I was lieing on my application?! I would have told them in the first place if I'd have known it would have come down to this.

So, Should I tell the school about this?! Can the school view applications sent to the Bon? Has anyone been in a situation similar to this?

Any input or advice would be SO greatly appreciated.

Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this, at least with other states.

In California, just as an example, it doesn't matter if it was sealed, treated as a non-conviction ... whatever. It's considered PERJURY if you don't disclose it to the board.

We just went through our licensing applications with our instructors. It's actually much, much worse if you don't disclose it. Our school goes through these situations with the board year after year. They know what they're talking about.

They hammered on this point over and over: Even if you just went through rehab ... they tell you to disclose it. Because if you don't disclose it and the board finds it, and they will ... THEN you're in big, big trouble.

People who aren't honest about their past actually have a bigger risk of not getting licensed than somebody who's committed murder and who was up front about it.

As the old saying goes: honesty is the best policy.

:typing

No, I'm not wrong about it, and it's not considered perjury, and no, this does not vary under a single state in the USA.

I would highly encourage you to speak to an employment attorney and they will confirm what I have posted here.

Rehab, is different, that is a drug problem and if your mental or physical health is in question that isn't protected under the law. Murder is ALWAYS a felony in all 50 states, and requires the governor to grant you a PARDON. If you get a pardon, guess what? You don't have to disclose you were convicted of murder to anyone anymore b/c that is what a pardon does: it voids the conviction and every right you had taken away from you as a convicted felon is restored to you.

Again, it has nothing to do with honesty, it is what the LAW gives you the right to do.

I would encourage you to look up how California views expungements and deferred adjudication or deferred judgement, and you will discover I am 150% correct.

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I would highly encourage you to speak to an employment attorney and they will confirm what I have posted here.

It doesn't matter what an employment attorney says. It only matters what the board says. And the courts almost always side with the BRN in these situations.

The director of my nursing program has a direct line into the BRN. She deals with these situations year after year. And she told us over and over: disclose it.

If people want to take the risk and not disclose it ... go ahead. But don't be surprized if you don't get licensed and/or lose your license.

:typing

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
It doesn't matter what an employment attorney says. It only matters what the board says. And the courts almost always side with the BRN in these situations.

The director of my nursing program has a direct line into the BRN. She deals with these situations year after year. And she told us over and over: disclose it.

If people want to take the risk and not disclose it ... go ahead. But don't be surprized if you don't get licensed and/or lose your license.

:typing

Are you saying that the BON is above the law?

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No, I'm not wrong about it, and it's not considered perjury, and no, this does not vary under a single state in the USA.

Uh ... yeah ... you are wrong about this.

California BRN application under p. 12:

http://www.rn.ca.gov/lic/pdf/exam_app_2004.pdf

Quote:

I certify under penalty of PERJURY under the laws of the state of California that all information provided in connection with this application for licensure is true, correct and complete. Providing false information or omitting required information is grounds for denial of licensure or license revocation in California.

:typing

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
Uh ... yeah ... you are wrong about this.

California BRN application under p. 12:

http://www.rn.ca.gov/lic/pdf/exam_app_2004.pdf

Quote:

I certify under penalty of PERJURY under the laws of the state of California that all information provided in connection with this application for licensure is true, correct and complete. Providing false information or omitting required information is grounds for denial of licensure or license revocation in California.

:typing

Look, I'm not trying to be rude, but you don't understand what the legal terms mean or what they legally allow you to do.

When you are given LEGAL PERMISSION to omit the convictions for the rest of your life by the courts that is NOT PERJURY!

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Are you saying that the BON is above the law?

The BRN has the legal authority to promulgate rules and regulations that have the same effect as law.

And their duty, under the law first and foremost is to protect the public. Their duty is not to protect the confidentiality of past indiscretions.

If you don't disclose it, you're essentially lying to the board about past incidents that could potentially affect public protection. No court is going to side with you on that.

Take them to court ... you'll see. You still won't get licensed, I'll guarantee it.

:typing

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When you are given LEGAL PERMISSION to omit the convictions for the rest of your life by the courts that is NOT PERJURY!

Not with nursing boards. Again, their duty is to protect the public, not you.

On p. 12, for example, it clearly states that expunged records have to be reported.

:typing

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.
The BRN has the legal authority to promulgate rules and regulations that have the same effect as law.

And their duty, under the law first and foremost is to protect the public. Their duty is not to protect the confidentiality of past indiscretions.

If you don't disclose it, you're essentially lying to the board about past incidents that could potentially affect public protection. No court is going to side with you on that.

Take them to court ... you'll see. You still won't get licensed, I'll guarantee it.

:typing

Not when there is a state law in place and that SUPERCEDES anything a Board of any profession has.

I studied legal theory for FIVE YEARS. The problem is, you don't understand what the LEGAL FUNCTION of an expongement or a deferred judication is, or how it applies in practice, and that is why you don't understand why these individuals DO NOT have to disclose and cannot be charged with perjury or denied a license for their failure to.

The BON, or any professional board, does not have special allowances that allows their policy to take precedence over established state law. You are comparing apples to oranges.

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I studied legal theory for FIVE YEARS. The problem is, you don't understand what the LEGAL FUNCTION of an expongement or a deferred judication is, or how it applies in practice, and that is why you don't understand why these individuals DO NOT have to disclose and cannot be charged with perjury or denied a license for their failure to.

Again, read the application. Expungement must be reported. If you don't it says right there you're guilty of perjury.

Legal theory is ... well, theory. If you ever been to court (which I have, many times) I seriously doubt any judge is going to buy into this.

Besides, the state has a lot more money to pay lawyers than we do. It's a waste of time to try to argue otherwise.

Just go ahead and disclose it. You'll be much better off in the long run.

:typing

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Specializes in Looking for a career in NICU.

I read the link and reviewed the penal code, and it turns out we are both right, to a degree.

California does have expungement and deferred adjudication and these function like they do in any other state. If you are given a job application and they ask if you have been convicted of a crime, you can legally say no, but here is where it gets interesting.

http://www.criminalattorney.com/pages/firm_articles_california_expungement.htm

What this article states, is the an expungement and deferred judication in California is virtually worthless, and California apparantly stands alone in this distinction according to the article.

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What this article states, is the an expungement and deferred judication in California is virtually worthless, and California apparantly stands alone in this distinction according to the article.

Well ... you were telling people that they didn't have to report expungements or deferred adjudications in any state.

Bottom line: You really have to check with each BON. That's your best source of information.

:typing

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I agree: Check with your state's regulatory agency.

After posting on this thread earlier, I reconfirmed that my state does not expunge criminal records, regardless of the outcome; that all felony records remain public, regardless of your age; adult records are never "sealed," regardless of the offense; and that the BON asks RN applicants to state in writing whether they have ever been convicted of a crime "other than minor traffic violations." It does not distinguish between felony and misdemeanor, and even if your case is "filed" here (meaning a deferred disposition -- you stay out of trouble for one year and the charge is dismissed) that charge is still on your record. I wouldn't disclose anything without checking with an attorney first; still, the information is easily obtained by anyone who wants access to it.

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