Why the Prejudice against LPNs

Rebecca King · May 18, 1999

I fully agree with bluesboyj. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I have worked with very competent nurses with all levels of education. We do a tough job on a day-to-day basis. I seems to me that the greater benefit to each of us and nursing in general would come from us supporting each other instead of, as I heard someone say, trying to bleed each other to death with all this back stabbing.

Ahn · May 19, 1999

There is a theory [there I go] about the way that nurses treat one another, and it has to do with being part of an oppressed group [sorry, I just got of an 11-7 shift], and also being in a profession that is predominantly female - another oppressed group. It's the way we are wired! I did a research paper on why males in predominantly female occupations tend to surpass equally skilled females - interesting stuff! [of coorifice, I wrote it! {smile}]. Have you heard about the color game?, where because of a certain physical characteristic of a group, they are determined to be inferior - they tend to behave differently, even for a short time. Hazing is pretty much the same thing. But with nurses, it's a career-long struggle. Think about it.

DHall14206 · May 20, 1999

I have been an RN for 7 years and recently took a position as a Supervisor of an Urgent Care Center in which I have an all LPN staff. This transition was new to me as I had never worked with LPN's prior (my background has been ER). I have learned daily from my LPN staff as well as they from me. I have also learned that there IS A DIFFERENCE between the two degrees. I am a theory driven nurse that needs rational for my actions where the LPN's that I have encountered are task oriented. We all have our place in the healthcare arena and I believe we make a very good team.

Joe,RN · May 20, 1999

Praise for bluesboy, could not have said it better myself! Ahn, I would be interested in reading your research paper if you would care to share it!

Ahn · May 22, 1999

Thought you may be interested.

[Hartford, CT] Journal Inquirer, Saturday, May 22, 1999

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STAFFORD HOSPITAL ELIMINATES 11 LPN POSITIONS ____________________________________ By Ted Kenyon and Christopher Connelly [Hartford] Journal Inquirer STAFFORD, CT - Johnson Memorial Hospital is eliminating 11 positions for licensed practical nurses, leaving no LPN's in the hospital's medical and surgical areas, a JMH spokeswoman said Friday. The remaining LPN's will work in the psychiatric and ambulatory units, hospital spokeswoman Lee-Anne Estey said. Estey says the move, which affects full and part-time jobs, stems from the economic challenges facing many smaller hospitals like JMH, particularly the size of payments from state-run uncompensated care pool and increased pressure from insurance companies for outpatient care. The small hospitals contend that the care pool, which reimburses hospitals for taking care of patients with little or no health insurance, pays too little to them, with the larger hospitals receiving payments they don't really need. Estey said the LPN jobs had to be cut in order to "re-engineer" JMH to meet a "changing healthcare environment." "Over the past two years many changes have occurred in the healthcare industry," she said. "They have forced many hospitals to carefully examine the model by which care is delivered." Estey said the LPN's loosing their jobs have been offered three potions, including taking similar jobs at the nearby Evergreen Healthcare Center, a 150-bed, long-term and subacute rehabilitation center owned by the hospital's parent company, the Johnson Health Network. The second option is to remain employed at JMH, but as "patient-care assistants" - which are newly created positions - or as "critical-care technicians." Accepting one of those jobs would mean a cut in hourly pay, but the LPN's would also qualify for financial aid in getting the training needed to become registered nurses, who generally are in high demand, Estey said. Specifics on the tuition reimbursement were unavailable Friday, but Estey said it involved a "significant amount." Although hospital officials declined to discuss the third option, which involves a severance package, an affected worker told the Journal Inquirer on Friday that it consists of one week's pay for every two years spent at the hospital, along with a promise of health insurance coverage for one year. THE AFFECTED LPN's YEARS OF SERVICE RANGED FROM 12 TO MORE THAN 25, ACCORDING TO THE EMPLOYEE, WHO REQUESTED ANONYMITY. The employee also said the LPN's are coping with feelings of "disbelief, anger, confusion, and betrayal." "We truly believed [JMH] was a family, and we take care of our family members. But they aren't doing that," the employee said. Deborah Chernoff, spokeswoman for New England Healthcare Employees District 1199, said the situation demonstrates the need for unionization of hospital employees. "Even the most competent professional is extremely vulnerable," she said. District 1199 does not represent the LPN's at JMH. Layoffs are becoming more commonplace at hospitals, Chernoff said, especially when mergers are involved. "The most congenial working atmosphere can change in an instant," she said. She also charged that administrative concerns too often take precedence over patient's welfare. The affected workers are "encouraged" to choose one of three options by Wednesday, Estey said, though the deadline is not "hard and fast." The number of LPN's employed by JMH had already been reduced significantly during the past year, Estey said. Those with more seniority, who were given the choice of the more favorable, daytime hours, stayed on. Many with less seniority, who would have been forced to work during the unpopular overnight shifts, chose to seek

Ahn · May 22, 1999

[ Sorry last words cut off]

. . . employment elsewhere.

MQ Edna · Jun 3, 1999

I'm an R.N. and I have experienced a reversed discrimination against me being an R.N. by one particular lpn, but all the other lpn's I work with are very good and have taught me a lot. The one lpn who has a problem with R.N.s is very bitter for some reason. She always says "If I was the RN I would do this or that different, but I'm not so I have to put up with your decisions" I would be very open to her ideas if she would just tell me what they are, instead of just saying how good her decisions would be. It's easy to say what you would or wouldn't if your not even having to make the decision or call the doctor.

MQ Edna · Jun 3, 1999

I have worked alongside many RN's who have

consulted with me clinically and who had

every confidence in my ability. I chose not

to get my RN because I worked alongside them

for eight years and saw what they went through! At the same time, there are many

RN's out there who I have often wondered how

they ever made it through a school of nursing! Just remember, those RN's who are

critical of you must be self serving or threatened. Hope your health returns and

you're able to pursue what you want to do!

naslpndfn · Jul 9, 1999

It angers me to hear stories about LPN's vs. RN's and I have vocally protested this issue locally and nationally for year! As an LPN for 15 years I have worked in many phases of nursing. I am very happy as an LPN and cannot even fathom going through the stress of nursing school again. I keep current in my skills and education through CEU's. I currently work in orthopaedics and I do have a serious regret, I cannot take the ONC exam because I am not an RN. I teach the refresher courses to RN's and I have chaired our continuing education workshops for eight years, but my TITLE (not my skills or education) keeps me from getting certified.

In my career, I have also been the Department Manager for a free standing Urgent Care Center with a staff of 13 nurses of all degrees. I must say there were some hard feelings from some that their "boss" was ONLY an LPN. But not once did anyone hint that my skills or my patient care was anything less than excellent because that is a personal goal I have.

I currently work in an office setting and recently heard a remark from a remarkable RN who came and spoke at a workshop we presented. She was discussing various roles in nursing and her comment was...LPN by degree PA (physician assistant) by experience. That is exactly what I am. I work within the scope of practice outlined for LPN's in my state, but I am absolutely my physician's assistant in every sense of the word. I make no apologies for JUST being an LPN. I have a hard time dealing with folks like the LPN who blamed her decisions on the fact that she was not an RN. You are what you are for a reason....be the best that you are no matter what the circumstances!! Didn't your mother tell you that years ago, anyway? The ultimate goal of nursing is excellent patient care. Alphabet soup should not make a difference in that goal!

karma k · Jul 9, 1999

this business with pejudice against titles is absurd. there is an importance to those letters behind your name, it's what you worked for. i can say ditto to just about everything i see posted here. some i take exception to. my own personal experience is that my "initials" lend me or prevent my having CREDIBILITY. i am an adn prepared rn with 11 years experience in med-surg, icu, psych and geri nursing. by the skin of my teeth i hold a certification in gerentology because i am not bsn prepared. i previously was ana certified in adult mental health. i started out in 1978 as an na then became a cna in a nursing home worked there 10 years, frustrated, injured, overworked and underpaid and the last 1 1/2 years there an opportunity presented itself to further my education. i was in a horribly abusive marriage, had no children,existing on minimum

wage. i looked around one day at most of my peers and realized that i could remain where i was for the next 20-30 years as a lot of them had and suffer more injuries (2 compressions in my spine, arthritis setting in) wear myself out, and eventually end up worn out, used up, and probably divorced and trying to make it on minimum wage. OR i could some how find a way. my options were lpn or adn rn. I had to work. 13 months of lpn school and out or 2+ years of college. i was poor so there were grants and loans, smart(?) so there were a few scholarships. I chose rn because i could keep working (1 1/2 years of required degree courses)and take block classes. at the end there would be higher pay and in my area more opportunities and rn was where i wanted to wind up anyway. i worked with rn's as a aide that had no idea how to do basic patient care and that friends is what the "N" stands for whether you are an lpn, rn, or whatevern. i've worked with lpn's and rn's that scared me to death and i've worked with both who taught me immeasurably------ we all have. i realize my legal and ethical responsibilities to my patients and my license. i worked very hard for it as we all did. we could trade war stories all day. i also realize that in order to remain competitive for positions i desire with new bsn graduates half my age, i will have to complete my bsn. the opportunity will present itself and i'll jump on it again! hang in there brothers and sisters and remember the "N" in the end we have to answer to ourselves as to our abilities but every day we answer to our patients as to our care. don't get me wrong a nurse is not WHO i am, it's what i do. what i AM is person,woman,wife (to someone else now), and mother. nursing does not consume me, but that doesn't mean i'm not dedicated. god luck.

karma k · Jul 9, 1999

this business with pejudice against titles is absurd. there is an importance to those letters behind your name, it's what you worked for. i can say ditto to just about everything i see posted here. some i take exception to. my own personal experience is that my "initials" lend me or prevent my having CREDIBILITY. i am an adn prepared rn with 11 years experience in med-surg, icu, psych and geri nursing. by the skin of my teeth i hold a certification in gerentology because i am not bsn prepared. i previously was ana certified in adult mental health. i started out in 1978 as an na then became a cna in a nursing home worked there 10 years, frustrated, injured, overworked and underpaid and the last 1 1/2 years there an opportunity presented itself to further my education. i was in a horribly abusive marriage, had no children,existing on minimum

wage. i looked around one day at most of my peers and realized that i could remain where i was for the next 20-30 years as a lot of them had and suffer more injuries (2 compressions in my spine, arthritis setting in) wear myself out, and eventually end up worn out, used up, and probably divorced and trying to make it on minimum wage. OR i could some how find a way. my options were lpn or adn rn. I had to work. 13 months of lpn school and out or 2+ years of college. i was poor so there were grants and loans, smart(?) so there were a few scholarships. I chose rn because i could keep working (1 1/2 years of required degree courses)and take block classes. at the end there would be higher pay and in my area more opportunities and rn was where i wanted to wind up anyway. i worked with rn's as a aide that had no idea how to do basic patient care and that friends is what the "N" stands for whether you are an lpn, rn, or whatevern. i've worked with lpn's and rn's that scared me to death and i've worked with both who taught me immeasurably------ we all have. i realize my legal and ethical responsibilities to my patients and my license. i worked very hard for it as we all did. we could trade war stories all day. i also realize that in order to remain competitive for positions i desire with new bsn graduates half my age, i will have to complete my bsn. the opportunity will present itself and i'll jump on it again! hang in there brothers and sisters and remember the "N" in the end we have to answer to ourselves as to our abilities but every day we answer to our patients as to our care. don't get me wrong a nurse is not WHO i am, it's what i do. what i AM is person,woman,wife (to someone else now), and mother. nursing does not consume me, but that doesn't mean i'm not dedicated. god luck.

nrsen99 · Jul 10, 1999

Sometimes I think that nurses forget where their place is in the health care system. I have a ADN. I am not qualified or educated to do some things that BSN or MSN educated nurses are. I can't do adminstration or research because I am not educated to do that. If I choose to do those things, it would be my obligation to go back to school and get my BSN. As far as the LVN thing goes. They are not qualified to do some things that RNs are. They don't have the same education. I have worked with some that can work circles around RN. However, they still don't understand some nursing responsiblities, pathophysiology or systems or meds. If they feel so disresped at work maybe they should think about going back to school. Or maybe changing their job. The hospital that I work at now is an all RN staff. We don't hire LVNs.