What is your opinion on getting the flu shot?

[Surg-OncRN]

Hi, I have gotten the flu shot every year for the past seven years I have been a nurse. I have decided that I have heard enough to convince me to not take it from now on. It is not mandatory at my facility but they push it very strongly. In other words, I have to think of a very good excuse for not taking it. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions on this and what I should do. Thanks!

[JustMeRN]

You called me anti-vax. I am not. I am anti forced medical treatment and reckless and misleading health care. My two kids are fully vaccinated minus yearly flu shots and HPV. Both my kids are on the autism spectrum. I received all my childhood immunizations plus some extra because an over-zealous school nurse didn't have all my records on school vaccination day. I developed juvenile rheumatoid arthritis in elementary school. This is an auto immune condition. I was diagnosed with another auto immune condition 18 years ago. What research have you done on vaccines and people with such conditions? The vaccine makers haven't done any research, or at least none they are willing to share.

Have you ever read a vaccine insert? That is a pretty bizarre response.

From your response I must assume you are not aware of the real reason there is a stronger push for vaccination. The healthy people 2020 goal is for 90% of health care workers to have the flu vaccine. If organizations do not meet a certain percentage they will be penalized with a loss of medi-caid reimbursement. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it bothers me that health care decisions are being motivated by money instead of what is best for a patient.

More to come.

I'm still waiting for links to statistics proving 600+ vaccine court payouts and 67 deaths from flu vax. Thanks. You can keep discussing personal experiences and personal beliefs, but beliefs are not facts. And can you explain to me why you think vaccine inserts mean anything special? What specifically is it on the vaccine inserts that makes you think they prove your point? What is the difference between the flu insert and other

vaccines you claim to support?

Yes, as stated above I understand the financial incentive to vaccinate. It makes sense. Pay hospitals to bump vaccine rates which decreases disease burden and cost of treating disease, in the long run its a cost saving measure. Why would Medicare (it's not Medicaid, it's Medicare pushing vax) endorse something that makes people sick and costs them money? They wouldn't. Vaccination and prevention of flu also helps cut sick days and lost work time, which can be very problematic for hospitals. So avian, what's the problem with incentives to vaccinate?

[eatenbylocusts]

im not sure exactly why you think this is a smoking gun of some sort? It makes perfect sense to me. Can you pinpoint the parts you think means flu is not a serious and deadly disease?

I'm beginning to think you are just trying to waste my time. I have never said the flu is not serious or potentially deadly. This link shows anyone who wants to know truth that the figures being touted every year as flu deaths is not factual.

Let me throw out some links you won't read: Here are 800 kids who developed narcolepsy in the UK. And just in case you think it isn't relevant to the US, Fluvirin, one of the flu vaccines my hospital is using is manufactured in the UK.Swine Flu Vaccine Caused Narcolepsy in Thousands: BMJ Claim

MMS: Error Vaccine injuries

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/statisticsreport.pdf Updated results for VICP.

If you really want to educate yourself, you will. Google scholar is a good place to start. Patients count on us to give them good information so I wish everyone would take a more pro-active role and not accept everything without question. I may have to stop notifications here because I am trying to research which Master's program I am going to pursue in addition to everything else I am responsible for and there doesn't appear to be any worthwhile exchange of information going on here now.

[elkpark]

I'm beginning to think you are just trying to waste my time. I have never said the flu is not serious or potentially deadly. This link shows anyone who wants to know truth that the figures being touted every year as flu deaths is not factual.

Let me throw out some links you won't read: Here are 800 kids who developed narcolepsy in the UK. And just in case you think it isn't relevant to the US, Fluvirin, one of the flu vaccines my hospital is using is manufactured in the UK.Swine Flu Vaccine Caused Narcolepsy in Thousands: BMJ Claim

The link to the "natural health" website leads to an "Not found" page. However, just out of curiosity, I Googled "swine flu narcolepsy UK" and got links to multiple articles -- which report that the UK government has determined that a vaccine given during the 2009-2010 swine flu pandemic, never given before and not given since (and never given in the US, containing a type of additive that has never been used in the US in any type of vaccine), "can" trigger narcolepsy. 6 million people were given the shot and ~100 of them have developed narcolepsy and are being compensated by the government. ~31 million people across Europe got the shot and ~900 of them have developed narcolepsy. The rate is estimated as 1 in 52,000 -55,000 people who got the vaccine (and, of course, people develop narcolepsy without having gotten any particular vaccine, as well). I don't see anything in any of the articles about "800 kids ... in the UK." I see mention of 100 people (of all ages) in the UK and 900 people (of all ages) across all of Europe (of course, that's in the legitimate press; I don't know what your "natural health" website article says, since your link isn't working, and the website's archive of vaccine-related articles doesn't include any mention of articles about flu vaccines in the UK (yes, I actually went beyond your link and looked further on the website)).

Swine flu vaccine can trigger narcolepsy, UK government concedes | Society | The Guardian

Yes, any vaccine has some risks. No one is disputing that. Sorry, you're going to have come up with more than that to scare me.

[JustMeRN]

I'm beginning to think you are just trying to waste my time. I have never said the flu is not serious or potentially deadly. This link shows anyone who wants to know truth that the figures being touted every year as flu deaths is not factual.

Let me throw out some links you won't read: Here are 800 kids who developed narcolepsy in the UK. And just in case you think it isn't relevant to the US, Fluvirin, one of the flu vaccines my hospital is using is manufactured in the UK.Swine Flu Vaccine Caused Narcolepsy in Thousands: BMJ Claim

MMS: Error Vaccine injuries

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data/statisticsreport.pdf Updated results for VICP.

If you really want to educate yourself, you will. Google scholar is a good place to start. Patients count on us to give them good information so I wish everyone would take a more pro-active role and not accept everything without question. I may have to stop notifications here because I am trying to research which Master's program I am going to pursue in addition to everything else I am responsible for and there doesn't appear to be any worthwhile exchange of information going on here now.

Im not sure why asking you to back up your claims is wasting your time. You have said that the flu shot is potentiallydangerous and unecessary, and made claims about the safety of vaccines without backing up your opinion. Opinions are not facts.

Your first link does not work.

From your our second link "In the VICP context, proof of causation does not need to be shown to the extent of what some might call scientific certainty. Rather, it suffices to prove causation according to the civil-law standard of the preponderance of the evidence,” showing that causation is more likely than not.” Although proving a mere possibility won't suffice, proof beyond a reasonable doubt” is not required." Which backs up what I said.

Your third link link is not for the years or statistics you claimed. But, looking at overall vaccines claims a 1 case compensated for every 1 million doses of vaccines given over a 10 year time frame. That's also all vaccines, not just the flu shot. So I'm not sure what that proves. And actually, according to the document you linked flu vaccine was not included for compensation until 2006, so where did your original numbers (including the 67 deaths from flu vax from 98-2013) come from? Looking just at flu for the time period in your link you have 1363 compensated claims for influenza out of 1,078,000,000 doses. Which equates to 0.00012% of vaccines creating compensated injuries. Even if we assume massive under reporting with only half of all possible reactions reported you are still looking at a adverse reaction rate that is well less than 1%.

Also, I would really appreciate it if you stopped suggesting I am uneducated. You continue to attempt to create a false argument by suggesting I "educate" myself. I know what I am talking about, I am well read and well educated. I'm not pulling facts out of thin air. There is plenty of support to back up what I have said. not so much with your claims. I fully agree that we need to understand the full picture, and in my opinion you are looking at a very small piece of a much larger picture. Do vaccines cause adverse reactions sometimes? Yes absolutly. But, you fail to acknowledge that those reactions are rare, and that influenza infection is much, much more dangerous. You are not protecting the best interests of your patients by refusing to look at all the facts, not just the ones that support you position.

Im not sure why you posted in a hot button discussion thread if you didn't want to be challenged to prove your stance? Feel free to not respond, doesnt matter much to me. You havnt been able to back up any of your "I thinks" or "I feels" with actual facts or data, or adequately defend why you think flu vaccine is dangerous. You havnt been able to explain where your statistics come from. I firmly support everyone's right to bodily autonomy. I think everyone has the right to refuse vaccination. But, I also think if you choose to refuse employer mandated (cdc and who reccomended) vaccination then you have consequences. No vax no job. High flu vaccine uptake is what is best to support population health.

[JustMeRN]

I saw this on Facebook today, thought this was a good place for it.