What one message about CRNA's do you wish the public "got".

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In other words if you had the ability to purchase big time national advertising what would your message be? Would it be outstanding safety at less cost (meaning that CRNA's save the health care system money relative to MDA's) or would it be that historically nurses had domain over anesthesia before doctors. I ask this question because I believe that nurse anesthesists must at least hold their own in the battle of rhetoric with the public and legislators/judges if they are to experience current levels let alone increased autonomy.

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Hhmmm... I think you have a little "homework" to do regarding your understanding of medical billing being "different" in most situations for CRNAs vs. MDAs/DOAs. Still, it is absolutely true that it costs an unbelieveable amount of $$$$ to train 1 MDA compared with CRNAS. I think the last figure I read was something like 10-12 CRNAs can be trained for the cost of producing 1 MDA? I think the only way to really begin cutting actually costs of anesthesia care would be introducing some form of "Heil-Hillary-Care" and I'm no liberal or socialist, so I personally would be against that. The$e problem$ are not going to be $olved ea$ily...!

Besides that point, if getting a message out to the public could be done (hurculean task!!), I WISH the public knew:

1 - CRNAs have been providing anesthesia since the 1880s (at least!) - see http://www.aana.com/crna/history.asp

2 - CRNAs do 2/3rds of all anesthesia in the US currently - did u get that point?!? If not, go back & re-read it! The people who are actually PROVIDING ANESTHESIA for the majority of surgical cases in this country are the CRNAs!

3 - We are NOT "anesthesia nurses" - we are stand-alone ANESTHETISTS and "don't need to stinkin' doctors stupervising us"! ;-)

4 - We're NOT DOCTORS!! and we don't aspire nor need to be. Now, TRY getting THAT message through to the American mindset and you've really accomplished something. Remember, here in America, Doctors are close to "God"/Gospel/Truth/The Final Word in all things Medical/etc. The American mindset says, "Doctors are the top of the heap and no one else even comes close!" How to get beyond that hype? Now, there's a tall order folks! ;-O

u-r-sleeepy

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Any idea why it costs so much more to train an MDA? What's that extra money going towards? Seems wierd that it costs more than 10x as much to train them when CRNAs perform almost equally well.

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Any idea why it costs so much more to train an MDA? What's that extra money going towards? Seems wierd that it costs more than 10x as much to train them when CRNAs perform almost equally well.

Hhhmmm... not sure of your background here, but I would venture that only SOME of the MDAs "...perform almost equally well" as CRNAs! I work with one MDA currently who is absolutely TERRIFIED of being left alone (i.e. without a CRNA around to actually DO the case) thus whenever he is on call we can never go home until all the cases (for the day) are done! Not only that, he literally starts to shake if a child is the patient - he never does children and "may God help you!" if he's doing your case because he almost never does a case himself. And you want to call that MDA "superior" or someone who should be "supervising" or providing medical direction? Get a clue! I and only one other CRNA do the kids at my facility. I do hearts, other "challenging" cases, etc., but still, the MDA/DOA is "King of the Jungle"?!? Guess again. They have proven better at negotiating contracts and monopolizing anesthesia departments in hospitals & surgery centers and foisting on the public the idea that they are "superior" vs the lowly CRNA, but that may not continue forever.

In fairness to Tenesma and other GREAT MDAs like her (who I also work with one) - they also can be a top notch practitioner. It's just that being an MDA doesn't necessarily mean that is going to be the case. As to the actual $$$ costs to educate CRNAs vs MDAs/DOAs, just look into the costs of their schooling program vs ours. That pretty much explains it. I do like DeepZ's animal farm page - it describes the current market pretty acurately!

u-r-sleeepy

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No disrespect meant sleepy, I hope to make it through CRNA school one day myself (though first I have to get my BSN, oh ya my RN also :) I never understood the CRNA vs MDA thing, I believe both professions have their place in anesthesia.

I'm not sure how your MDA made it through residency but I would say most are not like that and do their job well, just like CRNAs. Maybe it's not true, but I read elsewhere that there are a small percentage of cases (like less than .1%) that CRNAs can't do, thats when the MDA gets called. Those extra schooling costs must be for something useful.

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Maybe it's not true, but I read elsewhere that there are a small percentage of cases (like less than .1%) that CRNAs can't do, thats when the MDA gets called.

What exactly are these cases? And where did you get this information? Truly, I don't believe that there is a case that a MD can do, but not a CRNA.

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I wish the public had a better understanding of advanced practice RN's in general! I wish the mass media would quit fixating on TV shows about MD's, and include some ARNPs as well. Heck, the last time I had to go to the ER I was treated exclusively by a NP. Furthermore, I've had two surgeries in my lifetime that I sailed through with CRNAs.

I hope that the public learns that CRNAs are not the "doctor behind the mask". I really admire the individuals on this BB who have described that they clearly state their title before delivering anesthesia. As a former pt, I remembered who I went through surgery with after the anesthetists told me their title.

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What exactly are these cases? And where did you get this information? Truly, I don't believe that there is a case that a MD can do, but not a CRNA.

Well you aren't going to like the source, its an MDA board. But the text below is from a CRNA:

KmcHugh on p.2 of "CRNA=MDA?"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=83245&page=2&pp=30&highlight=crna

Having said all that, allow me to say this. Perhaps it is my military background, perhaps it was just my upbringing, but professionalism is very important to me. One of the benchmarks of a professional is the recognition of one?s own limitations. Let me say this clearly, and for the record. I do not believe, even secretly, that CRNA = MDA. There are distinct differences in education, and many of these differences are reflected in our scopes of practice. There are things MDA?s do every day that are not within a CRNA?s scope of practice. I can walk into an operating room and provide a good, safe anesthetic to a patient for almost any surgery. I can walk into an OB suite, and provide safe, reliable OB anesthesia. I can even provide some chronic pain management services. But, if a patient needs, for example, a CESB under fluroscopy, then I help the patient?s primary care provider to find an anesthesiologist with the experience to perform that procedure. I?ve seen the procedure done, I understand the implications of the procedure. Doesn?t mean I should try to do it just to prove something. That?s unprofessional.

There's a lot of info in that thread that details the differences between CRNAs and MDAs, I'm sure a lot is just MDA elitist BS but still many valid points.

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If there was one thing I wish the public knew it would be that CRNAs were around before MDAs. If anyone really understood that, then they wouldn't make crass statements about CRNAs and supervision. MDA training programs probably cost more because they get paid during residency whereas we pay for our training.

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Hhmmm... I think you have a little "homework" to do regarding your understanding of medical billing being "different" in most situations for CRNAs vs. MDAs/DOAs. Still, it is absolutely true that it costs an unbelieveable amount of $$$$ to train 1 MDA compared with CRNAS. I think the last figure I read was something like 10-12 CRNAs can be trained for the cost of producing 1 MDA? I think the only way to really begin cutting actually costs of anesthesia care would be introducing some form of "Heil-Hillary-Care" and I'm no liberal or socialist, so I personally would be against that. The$e problem$ are not going to be $olved ea$ily...!

Besides that point, if getting a message out to the public could be done (hurculean task!!), I WISH the public knew:

1 - CRNAs have been providing anesthesia since the 1880s (at least!) - see http://www.aana.com/crna/history.asp

2 - CRNAs do 2/3rds of all anesthesia in the US currently - did u get that point?!? If not, go back & re-read it! The people who are actually PROVIDING ANESTHESIA for the majority of surgical cases in this country are the CRNAs!

3 - We are NOT "anesthesia nurses" - we are stand-alone ANESTHETISTS and "don't need to stinkin' doctors stupervising us"! ;-)

4 - We're NOT DOCTORS!! and we don't aspire nor need to be. Now, TRY getting THAT message through to the American mindset and you've really accomplished something. Remember, here in America, Doctors are close to "God"/Gospel/Truth/The Final Word in all things Medical/etc. The American mindset says, "Doctors are the top of the heap and no one else even comes close!" How to get beyond that hype? Now, there's a tall order folks! ;-O

u-r-sleeepy

I thought we were nurses since our title is CRNA.

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I thought we were nurses since our title is CRNA

No one says we aren't 'Nurses'. when we graduate we are called Nurse Anesthetist's. Not an anesthesia nurse which is quite demeaning seeing the degree and all the training we have been through. I am still a nurse yes, but I find it very demeaning to be called a 'anesthesia nurse'

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