Walked in on a pt rolling a joint

Nurses Relations

Published

Where it happened:

Pt's room in an LTAC facility.

What I saw:

Pt sat on the edge of the bed with a menu on his lap in "roll-a-joint" position.". He quickly removed "something" from the menu and placed it into his cigarette packet, which he then tucked away under the pillow on his bed. He then placed the menu on his table and sat back in the bed.

What I did not see:

Marijuana. Rolling papers.

What I know about the Pt:

Active AIDS. Cancer. Goes outside to smoke in his WC a lot. Enjoys IV morphine, Ambien, Ativan, and Norcos a little too much. He's a clock-watcher. Once smoked a cigarette in the BR of his hospital room while under the care of another nurse.

What I said:

Hey, it's a shame your doc cannot write you a prescription for "that," as I pointed to his packet of cigarettes. I give "it" here in the hospital in a capsule-form called "dronabinol." We discussed legalization of marijuana. I stated that he must not smoke in his room due the risk of fire, the fact that smoking is obviously not allowed within the grounds of the hospital.

What I did not say:

Hey, I see that you are rolling a joint with marijuana there.

What he did not say:

Yes, I was rolling a joint with marijuana.

My reaction and action taken upon the above discovery:

Nothing further than the above description of my implied knowledge of what he was up to and a genuine discussion of my true feelings towards legalization.

I'm just curious as to whether anyone else has experienced such an occurrence, anyone else's feelings towards this incident, and anyone's opinions on whether I acted well having been faced with this "ethical dilemma."

The fact you posted this AT ALL screams judgment. Tack on all the FEROCIOUS defensiveness toward anyone who called you out, and you've basically BS'd your way into a corner of total embarrassment. As many newbies do here. They wade into a sea of sharks with thin skin, then seem surprised and start back pedaling and crying when they suddenly find themselves with the unwanted gift of a brand new, shiny, bright red butthole.

You sound terribly new at nursing. I've walked in on patients doing much worse and none of it was worth running to an online forum to ask about. Unless they are actively, immediately hurting themselves or someone else, it's a non-issue. The fact you've made such a fuss over this (and let's face it, posting about this AT ALL is making a fuss) then FEEDING the fuss by trying to defend yourself rather than learn something, tells me you're either very new, very näive, or one of those co-workers from hell who doesn't know when to just play it cool and when to actually raise a fuss.

Ok, I understand that many readers of this particular thread feel that it has taken a southern turn. Meaning, this thread has strayed so far from its original topic of discussion that is no longer worth continuing. I do feel the same. However, like another poster mentioned earlier, it really has morphed into an extremely interesting study of sociology, psychology, and, as stated by the poster mentioned, a insight into group mentality.

I am not responding here out of my "madness," nor I am feeling frustrated. I will admit that yes, at one point, I did feel frustrated. I actually posted swear words and embraced a general attitude which I thought would result in me getting banned. I did this as I had become fed up and, believe it or not, had other things with which to occupy my time. Honestly, I'm very surprised that the moderators on this forum have not banned me, yet ( ;) ). Now, I feel that we're at a completely different level of discussion of which I would be more than happy to continue, in a very cordial manner, of course.

Let's start with this response I quoted here. Let's all take a moment to consider the motivation of the person posting such a response, let's try and analyze it. This poster has made assumptions of my experience as a nurse, my motivations for posting in this forum, and my naivety. I would would really be more than happy to address these points. If any moderators do not feel that opening such a discussion is pertinent to this forum, or even self-growth, understanding of other peoples' and one's own points of view, I'll happily accept a "banning" and continue to possess opinions that I already have acquired from my experience here so far.

So, the only way in which I feel I can respond to this, and therefore continue what is to me an extremely interesting discussion and study of the human psyche in this this particular medium, is to dissimulate this particular posters post accordingly. Let me begin by stating that you are neither dealing with an inexperienced nurse, nor are you dealing with a moron.

And to address the claims that once a thread takes off, the OP no longer owns it: sure, this is not an issue that is up for debate. However, when the OP is being judged and accused of being something that he personally despises, he really ought to be allowed to respond in a fashion that not only does not claim ownership of the thread (what a stupid concept) but will allow him to at least try to provide some understanding as to where it is from he is coming.

The fact you posted this AT ALL screams judgment.
The fact that I posted this at all "screams" judgment." My understanding of the word judgment can only be presented here by my interpretation of the Merriam Webster definition, which states:

judg-ment

noun\ˈjəj-mənt\: an opinion or decision that is based on careful thought

: the act or process of forming an opinion or making a decision after careful thought : the act of judging something or someone

: the ability to make good decisions about what should be done

Ok, so if we all agree on this definition, sure, the statement "Enjoys IV morphine, Ambien, Ativan, and Norcos a little too much" could absolutely be called a "judgment." However, to make a conclusion as to how I as a nurse feel about this particular patient, patients in his condition, and then pass judgment on me as an individual, or, as this poster has done, my experience level, understanding, etc., I feel is wrong. Not only is it wrong, but it is downright ignorant. It is ignorant in that to give any sort of opinion on any subject without any evidence, experience of your own of the particular situation, is an example, purely, of just running your mouth and exerting your own opinions on a topic--which I will admit is a sensitive topic and may even advocate its own thread in which to be discussed--is to do so without any knowledge--ignorance. To bring this back to reality, the fact that none one is this thread has any experience whatsoever of this patient nor myself or my life, my experience as a nurse, my abilities as nurse, yet such a person feels they do have enough of the above to make assumptions of what I just mentioned not only "screams" ignorance" but also "screams" hypocrisy. For, if you are to accuse someone of a "crime" and then commit the exact same crime while doing so, you are a hypocrite.

If it really needs to be explained further, which I feel it does, as the level of understanding of those I am attempting to reach with this has been demonstrated to be pretty low, you cannot accuse someone of being judgmental and then judge them yourself. You definitely cannot then judge someone, in such a ways as described above, without any knowledge, evidence, whatsoever without appearing as a hypocrite.

The reason for posting this statement, which I am now on trail for have been explained by myself in this thread several times. If any of these explanations given have not satisfied you as to why I posted such a statement and how I feel about this particular type of patient, please state so in a polite manner, and I will do my best to explain further.

This issue is not whether or not this statement was objective or subjective, because unless you're (I am practicing restraint on my use of language for fear of having an entire paragraph removed rather than just certain words x'd out) a moron, this statement is obviously subjective, and to make many of you happy, (I hope you were able to comprehend my doing so), that is in fact, a judgment by definition. The problem is, the issue I take objection to is being framed as judging this patient as to his use of such meds. Again I would refer to previous statements I have made in this thread that state how I "feel" about this patient, patients of this nature, and his/their drug use.

What I am getting at is to confuse a statement made under the heading "What I know about this patient" (note: not...this is completely objective information about this patient, nor was it ...oh, here is what I think about....) as me confessing my own personal opinions of drug use, their abilities to at least sooth any kind of pain such a patient is experiencing and my disapproval of such a patient utilizing what is available to heal pain that only we can imagine (apart from that one chick who stated her own personal experiences), then you are again confessing ignorance.

Let's move on. Please feel free to question anything I have said, I will address any questions, concerns, etc. in a very cordial manner. I do enjoy discussion.

Tack on all the FEROCIOUS defensiveness toward anyone who called you out, and you've basically BS'd your way into a corner of total embarrassment.
Ferocious defensiveness? I would say that when one feels so strongly about something and has tried very earnestly to explain their point of view on such a subject and has continually been misunderstood as to their point of view, where are they are coming from, by the non-necessary infatuation that many posters have adopted to a statement that has been described by aforementioned posters (and the OP himself) as being "non-germane" to the actual topic of intended discussion, then ferocious defensiveness could be justified as your own personal understanding of my responses.

and you've basically BS'd your way into a corner of total embarrassment.
To suggest that my responses are "BS" is quite insulting, honestly, and as far as I am concerned "scream" misunderstanding of anything I have tried so hard to present as eloquently as possible, and, quite frankly, ignorance on your part. As far as embarrassment goes, I can only state that I do not feel embarrassed. Again, this is a "judgment," a subjective point of view, on my part, that I can only assume will be lost on someone with such an inability for understanding.

They wade into a sea of sharks with thin skin, then seem surprised and start back pedaling and crying when they suddenly find themselves with the unwanted gift of a brand new, shiny, bright red butthole.
This, quite frankly, I feel is childish and some kind of representation of how you have felt that if you do jump on this band wagon of attacking me (which I will do my best to demonstrate that you have) for a very wide-spread misunderstanding of a statement that really is "non-germane" to the original topic of discussion, you will acquire conformation from your peers for such an action. This completely demonstrates something I have mentioned in this response, something an earlier poster--with evidently a deeper understanding than yourself--has raised to our attention.

You sound terribly new at nursing.
Firstly, I don't think anyone can be "terribly" new at nursing. There are new nurses, yes. If one of them was to post on here and made some kind of mistake in their delivery of information (which I obviously have done), I would hope rather than jumping all over them and accusing them of things that you "assume," you would at least try to educate such a nurse. As for me, I think my "ferocious defensiveness" has somewhat demonstrated that I am not a new nurse, that my inexperience as a nurse was not the issue. Despite the fact that the original issue got missed by so many due to this infatuation, with a statement I made in my OP, that many posters shared when stating their own feelings, opinions towards a certain kind of patient, I have demonstrated that I am not lost, etc. as to how to treat such a patient. Please re-read if you feel you missed my feelings towards this.

Unless they are actively, immediately hurting themselves or someone else, it's a non-issue.
Or, your license, job, reputation, etc. may be risk, it is a non-issue.

I feel like I am spoon-feeding this to you, but for some reason, it is necessary to do so. I can only assume that you missed what I am about to say given your post. Are you ready? The incident described in the OP happened. This means that it is now history. I am the OP, and I acted how I described. I've described a few times now that I feel the way in which I acted was right. Right by my standards. I don't think anyone asked why I felt the way in which I acted was right. Again, it happened. It already happened. And I really feel like I am flogging a dead horse when I say this, but, evidently, it is necessary. I did not ask what I should do in such a situation. I merely describe a situation that happened and asked......I'm not going to state for what it is asked once a again, because if you cannot grasp that, then we're just playing. Maybe that is what we are doing. We'll see, I guess.

The fact you've made such a fuss over this (and let's face it, posting about this AT ALL is making a fuss) then FEEDING the fuss by trying to defend yourself rather than learn something, tells me you're either very new, very näive, or one of those co-workers from hell who doesn't know when to just play it cool and when to actually raise a fuss.
This really is my favorite part of your entire post. Really.

Posting on a forum is making a "fuss." Responding to misunderstandings of your original intention is making a "fuss." If that is what it is to be called, so be it. If discussion, debate, etc. is making a "fuss," let everyone who feels a certain way about anything make a "fuss," for this is the only way in which understanding will ever prevail.

The fact that if someone is interested in other perspectives on a situation (albeit a situation that has been buried in misunderstanding, ignorance, and the unusual desire to assert oneself as prudent, experienced nurse) deems them to be "new, naive," or "one of those co-workers from hell who doesn't know when to just play it cool and when to actually raise a fuss," then I really think you must have reached that peak of acquiring all knowledge and understanding of everything. Of which I am not envious but in disbelief. For I myself feel that I learn something new every day. What I learn may be about a medication, a disease, people, how to corner in a more smooth manner on my motorcycle, anything.....I could give an example of any aspect of knowledge of absolutely anything. My point is that we all learn something new every day. I think to claim the opposite is moronic. True wisdom is understanding that you do not know everything.

Why does anyone post in a forum? What's the point? I mean, if we have so much understanding, why even bother?

People are different. I have never met any two people who are not.

I don't know if you you read or were not able to understand what I posted a while back, but I have, in fact dealt with a patient smoking weed before. I may have had a desire before to possibly share my own feelings towards this, smoking weed in general, even for recreational use, but that was lost a long time ago. But if the point really has been lost, here it is: rather than ask someone with whom I work what they thought of the situation, and therefore receive a biased one maybe two opinions, I posted on this forum. I did hope to receive a pretty mixed, varied view of opinions. I did not expect to be questioned as to my experience level as a nurse, assumed as being a new nurse (which is not a crime by the way...respect and teach your new nurses) for asking a (refraining again from swear words ;) ) question and desiring responses, nor did I expect to be bombarded with a bunch of responses by people so hung up on the fact that they want me admit something about myself that is not true that they completely, and quite insulting, disregarded my original requests to concentrate on what I can only imagine is something that will make them feel better about themselves.

When I finally did give up, I became sarcastic. Low and behold, I actually received a response to the sarcasm as if it was actual statements I was making. I don't know what to suggest at this point. I really don't.

I really hope I made my point. I did try extremely hard to keep things simple and non-ambiguous.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

thread closed for staff review

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