I am a USA trained RN with over 5 years of experience. I have and BSN Degree and a Master degree to work as a NP. I got married this years and move to the Ottawa area. I started the process to transfer my license over to Canada from USA last October 2015. I called the CNO and I was told to contact NNAS for educational evaluation first.
The NNAS are a USA based third party company that reviews education for the Nursing Boards in Canada. Their reviewing criteria are unknown to me even after I asked them, they stated that it is confidential and they will not disclose this information to me. They told me that it takes about 6 to 8 weeks to process paperwork that is sent to them by mail. I had to call them multiple times, they could not find my paperwork, my school had to send them the same paperwork several times before it was finally found and processed.
They requested paperwork is for verification of employment, verification of education (which includes transcript, course description or syllabus of each course), Verification of Nclex exam with a notarized paper for the Nclex to release my actual Nclex grade to them. Plus, I had to pay them $650.00 US dollars for them to start the process.
The report was completed 8 months later around the beginning of July 2016. They issued an evaluation to the board of nursing that was unfavorable to me. They deemed my education as not equivalent to that of Canada. Although they ask for specific classes to be evaluated at the end of their report, I was given a 38% equivalence rate. I asked them to explain this to me and honestly they could not explain it because to me, it's confidential. I was told this percentage is not uncommon for USA trained RN. Mind you my husband studied nursing in Canada, we studied in same books by the same publishers, and the only difference is that they had Canada in front of all their books.
The NNAS claim that they look for certain words in the syllabus to see if I meet those criteria. I explained to them the syllabus gives you a brief description of the class and the contents that you are expected to have mastered. The remain exact topic studied needs to be followed through by going to the delineated chapters of each nursing book as outlined by the syllabi in order to provide a fair assessment of the topics that was mastered. Then I was told that they do not have the time to go look in every book, it should be in the syllabi or they assume that I never learned it.
I ended up have to go the dean of my school in order to request for them to send NNAS all my nursing education courses' syllabi. Then, I called NNAS again, and they did not receive the paperwork that was FedEx to them by the school. I was very disappointed by the work of NNAS because I went a prestigious Catholic University in USA, graduated with a 3.4 GPA, received two grade based scholarships and a job offer before graduation.
I was advised by my family to call NNAS. So I did call, I asked them why they issued this report that is not fair to my level of knowledge, training, and application of nursing sciences?
Then, I realize that although they requested these listed classes.
1 - Medical surgical for adult
2- Maternal and infant
3- Care of children
4- Psychiatric
5-Geriatrics
6- Community health
7- Anatomy and Physiology
8- Pathophysiology
9- Pharmacology
They actually look for other component of the nursing program not covered under these classes such as community nursing, health assessment and lab, simulation classes and competencies, ethics, professional role, nursing research, therapeutic interventions and lab, professional nursing, medication calculation and more.
So now, August 2016, I am still waiting 10 months later for another report that the NNAS agreed to re-issue because they realized that the prior report was not appropriate before I can get to step 2 which is applying to the CNO. The CNO actually is much quicker than NNAS, and I truly believe that they would do a better job by themselves or allow USA RN to either practice based the Nclex scores or allow us to take the exam again since it is the actual measure of competency for entry of practice for both Anglo-Canadian provinces and US States.
Does anyone have any recommendation for me?
Because I am here in I cannot work because I am waiting on NNAS…
How can we go about changing this process into a both safe and seamless process?
I am soooo sorry the process has been this tedious and frustrating. It is very upsetting. I have a friend who was a respiratory therapist in the U.S and it took the Canadian office 8 months before she got the ability to work in Canada as a therapist. Just know you may have to do some private duty work or work in a nursing home. Hospitals are full.
.... I started the process to transfer my license over to Canada from USA last October 2015. I called the CNO and I was told to contact NNAS for educational evaluation first...
Just wondering if you are able to update us? Many are in the same situation, with US nursing educations and "non-comparable" with comparability percentages that are so low there is no way the assessment is accurate when one looks at the content actually studied.
I am going through EXACTLY the same situation if not worse. It took NNAS 11months to give us a report. By month #10 we had enough and started calling every week requesting a report be give. ASAP. I think at the end they just had enough and gave us a report with over 150 competency gaps. We were baffled! When asked how that happened and what that answer was based on, they gave us the same answer they gave you; not even gave us the chance to supply more info or proof. I sent the report to my school's dean of nursing and she was so upset she called the NNAS herself asking for answers... they could not explain how they came up with that report. Now here I am, required to pay another $500 to take the IENCAP exam to prove that I am competent although I graduated with honors, passed the NCLEX-RN, charge nurse of a unit after 5years, holding extra 4 specialty certifications, and on my 2nd semester in NP school. I wish I could just stay in the US and not go though all this; but my husband works for the Canadian government and we just had a baby 4months ago... I'm just exhausted at this point í ½í¸•
I am going through EXACTLY the same situation if not worse... I think at the end they just had enough and gave us a report with over 150 competency gaps. We were baffled! When asked how that happened and what that answer was based on, they gave us the same answer they gave you; not even gave us the chance to supply more info or proof. I sent the report to my school's dean of nursing and she was so upset she called the NNAS herself asking for answers... I wish I could just stay in the US and not go though all this; but my husband works for the Canadian government and we just had a baby 4months ago... I'm just exhausted at this point ������
Of all experiences with NNAS, including my own, I think this one has struck me the most (I'm a sucker for babies!). The thing that is really missing from this change in IEN process is the lack of understanding that this impacts on the lives of real people. I understand the need to vet every applicant. I am not opposed to having strict expectations for nurses to become registered in Canada. But the problem is that the NNAS assessment does not work; it is not a reliable tool for assessing whether or not an IEN's education is equivalent to a Canadian education. Licensing bodies know this. The CNO knows this. They claim they have no control over NNAS's practices but the licensing bodies helped create NNAS; NNAS does not and will not exist without them. Another problem is that not enough of us have complained or complained to the right people in a formal and constructive way. Office of the Fairness Commissioner, CNO, MPP's, etc.
That aside...to @Icelocababe's specific situation:
- I also have found that calling NNAS repetitively and being assertive with your case does in fact get you somewhere.
- This isn't uncommon for US educated nurses to have more competency gaps than competencies met. It is because the NNAS assessment is nothing more than a "word search" of your course syllabi by non-nurses.
- It is unfair that you were not given an opportunity to send in more information. There are many people on this forum and other forums who had their assessor call them even, to let them know that what their school sent isn't enough and to advise they have more sent. Others have been able to work out with NNAS an arrangement for them to have more information sent from their school once they saw that their report was non comparable (without paying the $500 appeal fee. That fee is just a money grab!). It is not fair that NNAS treats applicants differently depending on how nice the assessor is. As an arms length company created by nursing licensing bodies, they should be held to the same standards of fairness and transparency.
- Good on your dean of nursing!!! Absolutely wonderful that she did that. It's a shame the process is so non-transparent that they aren't even required to explain how they came up withe the report results!
Do you have an IENCAP date yet? If I were you I would call or email CNO asap and tell them that you read in the CNO Council minutes from Sept 2016 that all applicants who received a "non-comparable" result will be reviewed by CNO. And that you are wondering if your case has been reviewed yet and what the status is on whether or not you still have to do the IENCAP. There have been people receiving letters from CNO stating that their case has been reviewed and they no longer have to do IENCAP. They have been "somewhat comparable" applicants but the meeting minutes do say all "non-comparable" applicants will be reviewed. It took me around 4 months to even get an IENCAP date so it's worth a try for sure. You can read the Council meeting minutes here: http://www.cno.org/globalassets/1-whatiscno/council/meetings/2016/2.1-september-2016-council-minutes.pdf
As for doing whatever you can in your power to be able to work in Canada sooner, I'd take the jurisprudence exam to get that off your plate.
@RN Pro you have no idea how delighted I am to read your post. I and my husband have gone through this matter several times trying to make sense of it; we have sent several letters to CNO asking for a reassessment of my application; called the NNAS several times to be given a chance to submit more documents if needed... we are both exhausted! We understand it's different legislations and rules and I willing to abide by them, but they just make no sense! How can my education be good enough to take and pass the same NCLEX RN examination Canada has adopted but not fulfill Canada's requirements for entry to practice????
What I forgot to mention was that month #10 was December and whenever we called they complained of lack of staff and too many application which was not an excuse. I think by the time they sent my evaluation they were pretty familiar with my name (which may have been a bad thing í ½í¸‚í ½í¸‚í ½í¸‚)
Anyways I am going to call CNO and ask my case be reviewed. Hopefully something good will come out of it. I am scheduled to take the exam on March 14th (after waiting 5months. By the way get yourself in the healthforce Ontario IENCAP workshop if you can! It's REALLY helpful ). I wonder how long it will take them to reassess my case...
I have already taken and passed the jurisprudence exam. Honestly it's just the IENCAP blocking me... and from what I heard, even passing the exam doesn't guarantee that they will give you the license... how can one exam cover over 100 competency gaps? Lol
What I forgot to mention was that month #10 was December and whenever we called they complained of lack of staff and too many application which was not an excuse...
Anyways I am going to call CNO and ask my case be reviewed... I am scheduled to take the exam on March 14th (after waiting 5months. By the way get yourself in the healthforce Ontario IENCAP workshop if you can! It's REALLY helpful ). I wonder how long it will take them to reassess my case...
...even passing the exam doesn't guarantee that they will give you the license... how can one exam cover over 100 competency gaps? Lol
I agree, lack of staff is not an excuse. They have been contracted to do a job as set out by the nursing licensing bodies. You are paying the full $650 USD so should receive full services as outlined on their website and service agreement with licensing bodies.
Glad to hear you have an IENCAP date! At this point I would probably just do the test regardless of what they say about whether they say regarding reassessment. Whatever you do, don't cancel IENCAP unless you have written confirmation that you are no longer asked to take the IENCAP. Because they could tell you they will reassess and you "may not be required" to take the IENCAP, however you'd have to wait until the reassessment is complete before you would know whether the "may" part of that phrase is reality or not. Technically they could decide they want you to take the IENCAP after all.
After IENCAP it should take about 8 weeks (but some people say it took 10) to hear about the results from CNO. Unfortunately Touchstone won't release your results to you even though it's your own personal information and they are apparently external from CNO. They will only be released to you via CNO. Not sure how long it takes in your area but I'd apply for a Criminal Record Check just to get that ball rolling so that it's ready when you need it--assuming you will be applying for your Ontario license in the next 6 months.
I did take the HealthForce prep session. Agreed, super helpful!!!
What school did you receive your nursing education? I'm wondering because I'm curious as to whether your school was one where other graduates, before NNAS was implemented, were accepted without incident.
You will be able to find more perspectives on IENCAP on this forum. Make sure you eat a big breakfast because apparently they try to starve you out. One bottle of water and one inedible sandwich for the whole day.
@RN_PRO Thank you for all the tips. I called CNO and they said they have been sending out letters since December and that I should just wait because they are in the process of reviewing every application. No input on time frame. And honestly I really don't think they will just wake up one day and decide that after all I actually fulfill over 100 competency gaps as assessed by the NNAS! lol So I am not getting my hopes too high. I will still do the IENCAP and see what happens next.
I feel like the entire process of seeking licensure in Canada is just made to discourage you, spend money, and make you feel worthless...Every single step is frustrating, full of nonsense and apparently not transparent at all. NNAS doesn't want to tell us what they base they their assessment on; CNO never gives a straight answer, they starve you for 8 hours so your brain freezes during the test; you cannot be told your results after IENCAP for 8-10weeks, and they can still decide to get you back to school even if you pass the test... A tortuous path to failure! hahahahah
Anyways I received my BSN at the Minnesota State University. I am also curious to know if anyone else from that school has received similar results...I did write a formal complaint letter to the NNAS and CNO; was wondering of there was any other regulatory body I could write to make our voices heard. Not for me, but for anyone else who will be going through all this.
Have you already taken the IENCAP? If yes I hope your results were positive and you were allowed to move forward. I will follow your advice and apply for criminal check. If after all that they ask me to go back to school, we are going to just look for a way to stay in the US...
I cannot thank you enough for your input and encouragements. Somehow I felt "targeted" by the NNAS and CNO with all this, but It seems like I am not the only one with these issues. I wish everyone the best of outcomes in this tumultuous matter of just getting a license to practice as a Nurse in a country right next door from the US that has just adopted the same NCLEX-RN exam that Americans use to determine if one is qualified as an entry to practice nurse, but yet don't agree that the American universities hold the same standards as theirs...lol Lovely!
@RN_PRO ... I called CNO and they said they have been sending out letters since December and that I should just wait because they are in the process of reviewing every application. ... I will still do the IENCAP and see what happens next.
I feel like the entire process of seeking licensure in Canada is just made to discourage you, spend money, and make you feel worthless...Every single step is frustrating, full of nonsense and apparently not transparent at all...
Good call on doing the IENCAP anyway. My guess is that you will pass it and they will consider you to have met the education requirement. Because quite honestly I think they know US educated nurses meet the mark but now that they have created this NNAS monster they are following through.
IENCAP is the only step in this process where I actually understand the length of time it takes to get results. Since the OSCE part of the exam isn't a multiple choice exam and scoring would have to be calculated etc, I can be okay with that. But the rest of it...some people wait one year from the time their documents are received at NNAS for their Advisory Report!
If you would like to see what exactly your school sent to NNAS, you are allowed to request a copy of your file and they have to provide it.
Another body that you could (and I believe should!) write to is the Office of the Fairness Commissioner (funded by provincial tax dollars). They are mandated to ensure CNO and other regulated professions have licensing practices that are fair, transparent, objective and impartial. Although separate organizations, NNAS and Touchstone are embedded into the licensing process so are fair game under the mandate, as far as I'm concerned. Both NNAS and Touchstone received public dollars for startup and continue to receive some funding.
I am also doing the exam next week. I wish you luck!
This is a bit off topic but did anyone else notice that Touchstone is going to be assessing IENs for CARNA? The exam will be titled the Alberta Registered Nurses Assessment Program (ARNAP) it looks like it will be similar to IENCAP, but it will cost applicants $1,900.00.
Maybe the Alberta government doesn't provide as much funding for the ARNAP, as the Ontario gov't does for the IENCAP. According to CARNA website, Touchstone is looking to hire RN examiners for the ARNAP, the examiner training day is June 16/17 and the assessment day is June 17/17, that's one day for examiner training...hmmm.
...Touchstone is going to be assessing IENs for CARNA? ...looks like it will be similar to IENCAP, but it will cost applicants $1,900.00.
I was hoping this was a joke. I want to pretend I'm surprised but when I think about how this whole thing is set up, my surprise lessens but my blood pressure increases.
Many issues here:
1) If Canadian entry-to-practice expectations are uniform in as much as the NNAS assessment can determine whether one meets the education requirement for applicants wishing to practice anywhere in Canada (except Quebec), why should there be a separate OSCE/proof of knowledge, skill and judgement exam for IENs in different provinces? (now that we have this 'streamlined approach)
2) Why the ridiculously high cost? Sure, they may not have received the Ministry funding that was received for the start-up of the IENCAP in Ontario, but that doesn't justify this cost because the wheel has already been invented. I agree it looks exactly the same as IENCAP. Slight tweaks for provincial legislative differences are all that is necessary and therefore applicants need not be paying the costs of initial set-up from the ground up. Interestingly enough, CARNA explicitly disassociates themselves from the fee for the exam, however this is the only exam they will accept for IENs and therefore they endorse it.
3) For an assessment done by people who have only had one day of training, $1900 is absolutely unreasonable. It's just as bad as NNAS; $650 for an assessment of nursing education that is done by non-nurses! The problem is, IENs will continue to pay and say nothing, because they are at the mercy of licensing bodies that essentially determine the fate of their career and in some cases this determines the fate of their lives.
My guess is that the Touchstone Institute (company!) will move across Canada, capitalizing on the industry that has been made of is IENs.
For those new to the forum, it may or may not be an important side note that that the CEO of Touchstone (the company that determines whether an IEN has to go back to school or not) is also a professor at York, the Ontario university with the IEN bridge program.
katherine100, LPN
310 Posts
I am soooo sorry the process has been this tedious and frustrating. It is very upsetting. I have a friend who was a respiratory therapist in the U.S and it took the Canadian office 8 months before she got the ability to work in Canada as a therapist. Just know you may have to do some private duty work or work in a nursing home. Hospitals are full.