University of Cincinnati (UC) CRNA

gastoker · Jan 27, 2011

I personally would look elswhere for another program. I have a friend who went there and said the program is not that good. The only reason they get the "ranking" they do is because of the clinical experience. They are in a huge transitional period with a director who has ZERO experience running a CRNA program. The lady before him is now the executive director of the AANA. She left last year and this new guy took over. The guy has no experience running a program and they are transitioning to a doctorate program. Not to mention the "teachers" they have also have little experience teaching anesthesia inside or outside the classroom. They are mostly recent graduates. For one course you may have 4 people teaching it. UC does this to save money on hiring fulltime professors. They give each CRNA a small bonus for helping to teach a class. Instead of having dedicated faculty they get a bunch of grads to drop in on their days off to teach you anesthesia.

My friend told me that it was a joke the way they taught and that everyone in class said that they would never think UC was as highly ranked as they are considering how unorganized the program is. I think it gets its ranking stricly on the fact it was run by the former president of the AANA and now executive dir. of the AANA and that it is a level 1 trauma center. It has nothing to do with how great the teachers are. Not only that, but he said in clinicals it can be like hazing. Some CRNAs (especially the women) would treat you like a piece of crap and act annoyed that they even had to teach you. If they don't like you and you are passing but just hanging on to the edge of your grades, they will find a way to get rid of you in their program. His class lost 6 students in the 1st year!! 6 freakin students!! That is a VERY high attrition rate. They will do anything to can you if they don't think you will pass boards. They want their pass rates high and if it means ruining you financially and emotionally, they will do it. It's all they care about. Not to mention their peds rotation they essentially leave you by yourself in the 1st week. My friend said he had no clue how to give anesthesia to a child yet they would just leave him there the entire case. He said soon they would just leave him all day to do anesthesia even on babies with no one to come and see how he was doing. How scary is that?! Remind me not to take my child there to get surgery. This was at Children's Hospital by the way. Can't imagine how the parents would feel if they knew their child was being put to sleep by a 1st year CRNA student. Scary.

I would avoid this program at all costs but that is just my opinion. They are not what they seem to be. Some CRNAs in clinical will flat out lie and make things up that you did or did not do to get you in trouble if they don't like you. They are like a bunch of sharks. If they smell blood and you get nervous they will all just eat you alive. It is pathetic. I have talked to other former students who said the same thing about the program. There are much better programs out there. My suggestion is to focus on smaller programs with dedicated faculty and not so many adjunct faculty who could care less if you graduate or not.

retuRN · Jan 27, 2011

Thanks for the info. I actually will BR attending a smaller more personal school. I start at TCU in the fall. Thanks for the heads up and I hope your friend comes out on top after dealing with what seems like a miserable program!

beedog13 · Feb 23, 2011

I just graduated from UC in Dec. 2010. I had not taken physics since high school and took the chemistry required for nurses during my BSN--chem/physics is not that bad in CRNA school. All of what you have planned sounds very good. Your ICU is a good kind of ICU. I will advise you that while UC is a good program rankings-wise and that our former director (who is a past pres. of the AANA) currently the top-dog in the AANA (executive director), UC is a fairly malignant program with alot of caustic personalities--it was hardly a fun 27 months. I am sure many other programs are the same. If you are a guy (I am), I will advise you that UC has traditionally accepted women over men in a 3:2 ratio--that may be changing. The CRNA workforce is pretty close to 50/50. Do the math. The clinical experiences are very good. That being said, we have a new program director and more importantly a new asst. director; they have re-vamped the interview process--much of what you may find on here that was not from the 2010 interviews may well be null and void. A good GRE score may get you a scholarship (you will be hard pressed to find that anywhere else). The cost of attendance is not bad. Cincinnati is a cheap place to live. They like out-of-town applicants right now. The job market in Cincinnati is very tight right now--they don't want to flood this market. I think being where you are from is a help. Get back at me with any other questions. I am taking the certification exam within the next 2 weeks so I am in study mode--may take awhile for me to reply.

B-dog

Hey I'm planning on possibly applying to UC's program this fall and I was wondering if you all had any tips for me (interviews, application, anything!).
I'm from Louisiana (not sure how many out-of-state apps. are considered), I'm 23, I've worked as a tech in ED for 18 months (not sure if this matters any!) prior to obtaining my BSN, I've just made a year in ICU (inner city hospital, level II trauma), I'm taking CCRN next week and will take GRE after, I'm an AACN member, I've been on the medical response/code team for 6-months, I'm currently orienting a grad nurse, and I will soon begin to teach ACLS at the hospital.
The ICU I work in is a 24 bed ICU (combined 14 bed CICU, 10 bed SICU), plenty of experience with EKG interpretation, blood gas interpretation, a-lines, ventilators, multiple drug infusions, ventriculostomies, CRRT. I don't have extensvie experience with IABP or swans, but I do have experience with them. Our ICU basically does everything but fresh hearts.
I have not taken any Biochems or Physics classes. How much do you think this is weighted in the application/admission process?
Are there any suggestions you current students have for me to make myself more appealing to UC?
Anything helps!

beedog13 · Feb 23, 2011

I am a recent UC grad. I would say that I may share some of your friend's sentiments. That being said, most of my didactic was strong--there are a few instructors who are not that great in class. Clinical is a very mixed bag. UC has traditionally accepted girls 3:2 over guys. Men are pretty close to half of the CRNA workforce--do the math on the gender bias potential. Now some of this may be improving. One of the best class/clinical instructors is the new asst. director--she has great ideas and I think will help change the face of a program that has not changed much in a long time. But UC is very tough if you have a family. You have to weigh it out. My class has made a very strong showing on the certification exam--we must have learned something the right way. I bet there are more friendly environments elsewhere to be sure.

Beedog

U_Cincinnati · Nov 18, 2011

The University of Cincinnati Nurse Anesthesia program received a full ten-year accreditation (the highest level awarded) this year from the Council on Accreditation of Nurse Anesthesia Programs. The program was also commended for a board passage rate that exceeds both the required and preferred rate nationally. During the accreditation process, every aspect of a program is examined under a microscope. The Council found absolutely no deficiencies or areas for improvement in either clinical or didactic instruction in the UC program. This is a rare accomplishment for any nurse anesthesia program.

UC's didactic courses are taught by practicing CRNAs, some of whom are national experts in their subject areas. Students have the opportunity to evaluate every didactic (and clinical) instructor, and instructors who perform poorly are relieved of their teaching responsibilities. UC graduates, and their employers, indicate on post-graduate surveys that they were very pleased with the quality of their instruction and felt they had ample knowledge and experience to fully function as a CRNA on their very first day of practice.

UC's attrition rate is lower than the national average. We are proud of our statistics, in fact, we post them online on the program's public website. You can view them at http://http://nursing.uc.edu/academic_programs/msn/onsite_programs/nurse_anesthesia/program_info/accreditation.html Visit other programs' websites and try to find this information -- chances are, you won't.

Gender statistics comparing male to female students: current senior class = +1 female; current junior class = +1 male; incoming class = +2 males.

gastoker · Nov 19, 2011

UC's attrition rate is terrible. Anyone who has a 6-8% attrition rate is not good. Compare this to Akron which has less than a 1% attrition rate over 15 years!! UC can't even come close to this. So essentially every class that UC has they lose 2-3 students per class. Sometimes more. Sometimes they lose people early and sometimes they lose them late in their education. That means, you could be almost done or completely done with your didactics and they could kick you out. That means all the time and money you spent to get there was a waste. This happens on numerous occasions at UC. I know people who who have had this issue at UC. That is not a student friendly program.

Like I said, compare this to Akron where they have less than 1% attrition over 15 years. That means when people get in they finish because they are very student friendly. They believe the student before the CRNA, which is the way it is supposed to be. The 2 don't compare when it comes to this.

U_Cincinnati · Nov 19, 2011

As I pointed out in another thread, obviously you have a personal axe to grind with the UC program. Since you continue to harp on attrition rate, I will address that issue.

Probably no UC graduate would say that he or she absolutely loved every minute spent in the program. But no successful graduate will complain about the attrition rate, because UC graduate CRNAs are an elite group of excellent providers who function at the highest levels in our profession. I fail to see the logic in your assertion that "everyone passes" is an indicator of quality. UC would prefer not to continue to collect tuition from, and ultimately graduate, anyone who will not represent the program and our profession at the level of the high standards that our graduates set in the community. Everyone knows CRNA training is difficult. A situation where everyone succeeds seems more suspect than a situation where a few people fail IMHO.

UC's program is very selective, so it is rare for someone to be unsuccessful academically or in clinical. Most cases of attrition are due to personal or health issues. Occasionally a student struggles and when this happens, he or she is placed on probation and given an opportunity to improve his or her performance. A failure while already on probation will result in removal from the program. This is very rare, but it does occur. The public places its trust in nurse anesthesia education programs and should expect that students who don't measure up won't just be passed along to avoid bad feelings or statistics. UC's program is difficult, and it is not for everyone, just like the profession of nurse anesthesia is not for everyone.

gastoker · Nov 19, 2011

Of course a graduate is not going to complain about the attrition rate. Why would they? What about the poor soul who gave up his/her job, moved to a different city or state, and went into a tremendous amount of debt. What about the time they spent away from their family? You have someone who passes all of their courses and gets kicked out, or someone who struggles a bit in a course and then is asked to leave the program. It's not just about a rule book (i.e. do x and x and you're out). These are human beings. Not just numbers. All of those that were accepted into a CRNA program obviously wanted to be there or they wouldn't have given up so much to get there.

Personal issues aside, there is no reason why a student shouldn't pass CRNA school unless they just don't study and don't show up for clinical. I'm not saying it should be easy but these are adult learners who gave up their current lives to pursue CRNA. They didn't just dip their toes in the pool to test the water. There is a significant sacrifice made by the student and their families. What kind of sacrifice does the school make? They still got their tuition from that student so they lost nothing. The CRNA who trained them still got paid that day. Did the student get paid? No.

I will briefly touch on the premise that you think a school who typically graduates all of its students is not a quality program and is "passed along to avoid bad feelings or statistics". If that were the case then don't you think board pass rates would reflect that? If they didn't know the material and the school just greased them through it would be noted on their board statistics. So really, to me, a program who has multiple people fail out doesn't seem as supportive or legit as a program who graduates more students and has high board pass rates. To me, that sounds more like a program one would want to be a part of than a program that cuts 2-3 students per class. It shows me they care about their students and they know how to teach anesthesia in a way that everyone gets it.

When you have less faculty to deal with during a course it makes the learning process much less confusing compared to dealing with multiple faculty for just one course. Especially faculty who don't have much teaching experience. That is fact with UC. They use recent grads in some courses to teach classes where with a program like Akron, they use instuctors who have been professors for a long period of time and use one per course. Just makes sense to me. I know for a fact that the council on accreditation questioned the amount of full time faculty and wanted to see more full time faculty on their visit this year. Hence, less adjunct faculty coming in on their spare time to teach an anesthesia course. I was told that by a current grad.

Again, you are saying that a person who struggles is placed on probation and given opportunity to improve. How is that supportive? Essentially you are taking a student who might have a different learning style and may pick up the info a little slower, and alienating them. You are placing all the pressure on them instead of helping them overcome their struggle. You are placing them on probation and then kicking them to the curb if they are still struggling. No one at that level should be booted because of some struggles the program won't help them get over. How about the person having personal issues in their own life that is affecting their concentration in class or clinical? Do you kick these people to the curb as well? Is there any effort to support this person in their personal life in order to get them back on track in school? I doubt it.

Again, arguing that Akron's students are pushed through because they are just saving bad feelings or exaggerating their statistics is bogus. Like I said, if that were the case then their board pass rates would mirror that. It doesn't, so that excuse doesn't hold. It does show they care more about the students they select to be a part of their program.

U_Cincinnati · Nov 19, 2011

Well, you should know better than anybody. And I didn't say anything about Akron's program or its students at all. I said that the argument about having a 0% attrition rate equates to quality education is a fallacy. Not everyone can be a CRNA. That's part of what makes the job so desirable. Sometimes admissions makes mistakes, obviously.

There is no need for any program to apologize for removing a student who can not meet its requirements. And since the job of a CRNA is so important, the standards have to be high to protect the public, regardless of anyone's debt or time spent away from their family. That's not sufficient reason to progress a student.

Let people see our statistics published on the website and make up their own mind. UC has nothing to hide. Your personal story and its obvious slant should not deter a quality applicant from pursuing education at UC.

U_Cincinnati · Nov 19, 2011

The link above is incorrect. Find the UC statistics here: http://nursing.uc.edu/academic_programs/msn/onsite_programs/nurse_anesthesia/program_info/accreditation.html

No class at UC has ever lost 6 students, as alleged earlier.

gastoker · Nov 19, 2011

The link above is incorrect. Find the UC statistics here: http://nursing.uc.edu/academic_programs/msn/onsite_programs/nurse_anesthesia/program_info/accreditation.html
No class at UC has ever lost 6 students, as alleged earlier.

Oh, it has and I know a guy who was in that class. It included 2 other students from a previous year. All in all it ended up being 6 students total. On average UC loses 2-3 per class. They find the "weak link" and they get rid of them. That's the way it happens. Does it happen like that at other programs as well? Sure. Numerous programs in the country do the same thing and have an even higher attrition rate than UC.

University of Cincinnati (UC) CRNA

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