gastoker

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I know someone in this most recent class at UC to graduate.... 4 students from their class plus 2 others from the previous year who were given another shot were "let go" from UC. That makes 6 total from 1 class. I don't know of any other profession that treats it's colleagues like that. That is not flaming UC but rather some in the CRNA community; and this is not a sexist statement but most of the issues come from female CRNAs (i.e. gossiping about other students, telling on students to get them kicked out or get them in trouble..etc) Not all women CRNAs are like that but there are a few snakes in the grass.

Oh, it has and I know a guy who was in that class. It included 2 other students from a previous year. All in all it ended up being 6 students total. On average UC loses 2-3 per class. They find the "weak link" and they get rid of them. That's the way it happens. Does it happen like that at other programs as well? Sure. Numerous programs in the country do the same thing and have an even higher attrition rate than UC.

Of course a graduate is not going to complain about the attrition rate. Why would they? What about the poor soul who gave up his/her job, moved to a different city or state, and went into a tremendous amount of debt. What about the time they spent away from their family? You have someone who passes all of their courses and gets kicked out, or someone who struggles a bit in a course and then is asked to leave the program. It's not just about a rule book (i.e. do x and x and you're out). These are human beings. Not just numbers. All of those that were accepted into a CRNA program obviously wanted to be there or they wouldn't have given up so much to get there. Personal issues aside, there is no reason why a student shouldn't pass CRNA school unless they just don't study and don't show up for clinical. I'm not saying it should be easy but these are adult learners who gave up their current lives to pursue CRNA. They didn't just dip their toes in the pool to test the water. There is a significant sacrifice made by the student and their families. What kind of sacrifice does the school make? They still got their tuition from that student so they lost nothing. The CRNA who trained them still got paid that day. Did the student get paid? No. I will briefly touch on the premise that you think a school who typically graduates all of its students is not a quality program and is "passed along to avoid bad feelings or statistics". If that were the case then don't you think board pass rates would reflect that? If they didn't know the material and the school just greased them through it would be noted on their board statistics. So really, to me, a program who has multiple people fail out doesn't seem as supportive or legit as a program who graduates more students and has high board pass rates. To me, that sounds more like a program one would want to be a part of than a program that cuts 2-3 students per class. It shows me they care about their students and they know how to teach anesthesia in a way that everyone gets it. When you have less faculty to deal with during a course it makes the learning process much less confusing compared to dealing with multiple faculty for just one course. Especially faculty who don't have much teaching experience. That is fact with UC. They use recent grads in some courses to teach classes where with a program like Akron, they use instuctors who have been professors for a long period of time and use one per course. Just makes sense to me. I know for a fact that the council on accreditation questioned the amount of full time faculty and wanted to see more full time faculty on their visit this year. Hence, less adjunct faculty coming in on their spare time to teach an anesthesia course. I was told that by a current grad. Again, you are saying that a person who struggles is placed on probation and given opportunity to improve. How is that supportive? Essentially you are taking a student who might have a different learning style and may pick up the info a little slower, and alienating them. You are placing all the pressure on them instead of helping them overcome their struggle. You are placing them on probation and then kicking them to the curb if they are still struggling. No one at that level should be booted because of some struggles the program won't help them get over. How about the person having personal issues in their own life that is affecting their concentration in class or clinical? Do you kick these people to the curb as well? Is there any effort to support this person in their personal life in order to get them back on track in school? I doubt it. Again, arguing that Akron's students are pushed through because they are just saving bad feelings or exaggerating their statistics is bogus. Like I said, if that were the case then their board pass rates would mirror that. It doesn't, so that excuse doesn't hold. It does show they care more about the students they select to be a part of their program.

UC's attrition rate is terrible. Anyone who has a 6-8% attrition rate is not good. Compare this to Akron which has less than a 1% attrition rate over 15 years!! UC can't even come close to this. So essentially every class that UC has they lose 2-3 students per class. Sometimes more. Sometimes they lose people early and sometimes they lose them late in their education. That means, you could be almost done or completely done with your didactics and they could kick you out. That means all the time and money you spent to get there was a waste. This happens on numerous occasions at UC. I know people who who have had this issue at UC. That is not a student friendly program. Like I said, compare this to Akron where they have less than 1% attrition over 15 years. That means when people get in they finish because they are very student friendly. They believe the student before the CRNA, which is the way it is supposed to be. The 2 don't compare when it comes to this.

"The small class size allows each student to get personal attention and individually-tailored clinical experience, as well as build lasting relationships with faculty members and classmates. " I have to also comment on this. Most CRNA programs have small class sizes so this is not any different than most programs around the country. They do not tailor clinical experience. They put you where they want and they work you like an employee from what I understand. That means lots of call even on days you have class and tests. You could have call then have a test the same day. There is no rhyme or reason to clinical and class because UC uses you as an employee to get their surgeries done since they are state/government funded hospital. There might be times where you will have 1 CRNA watching over 2 students. Compare this to Akron where at the most you have 4 days of clinical in a week with 1 day of class. In addition, class and clinical days are kept separate to allow you to prepare accordingly. At UC you could be placed on call your 1st semester in clinical where as at Akron they wait to place you on call at a later time in your career as a student so you are more comfortable. Also, Akron has 33 clinical sites throughout the state of Ohio. If you want, you can live in the Akron area and do most if not all of your clinicals within that area, or if you live in columbus or cleveland you can do most clinicals there if you are from those areas. I believe they also have clinical sites in Toledo and Dayton which helps those that want to live in those cities without having to move. It is much more student friendly in that regard. All around, Akron is just a much better program to be a part of.

I would NOT attend UC's program. UC has an attrition rate of like 6-8% which is terrible for any program to have. There should not be attrition rates this high at any graduate level program. Especially one where someone has quit their job in an intensive care, has moved to another city, has taken on a tremendous amount of debt, and has given up numerous hours of time with their family. UC is a program that will dump you in a heartbeat even if you have completed all or most of your didactic work if they do not like you and the CRNAs do not like you. There are some VERY poisonous personalities at UC hospital and if some of them don't like you, they will try everything in their power to have you removed from school, no matter the cost to you or your family. It is a known fact from several people I know that have attended there and either graduated or were kicked out. You would think at this level they would want you to graduate considering the burden you have taken on financially and in your personal lives but they don't care about that. Compare that to a program like Akron which has less than a 1% attrition rate in over 15 years!! That is a huge gap compared to a program like UC. Akron also was given a 10 year accreditation. That tells me a lot about the mission of that program and that is one who cares about the student and appreciates the time, money and effort they have given to be where they are. People don't put their entire lives on hold to be kicked out of school. They are paying for an education and some people learn on different levels. Some are slower learners than others and training should be adjusted accordingly. It's not undergrad. A side note here is that UC's former director is now the executive vice president of the AANA so that probably has something to do with the lack of any violations. UC's only strength is it's clinical sites. It is not didactics. I know a guy who was in this program and the CRNAs that taught class were not always the best teachers. They were not hired full time didactic instructors. Most come in on their days off to teach a section of a course. So that means you would have as many as 4 CRNAs teaching you one class and each having different teaching styles and tests, which from what I understand is very difficult to prepare for with tests. Some of these CRNAs were also recent graduates from the program and some having no experience what so ever in teaching courses on any level. Again, compare this to a program like Akron who has dedicated faculty to teach ALL of your courses. Having 1 professor teaching multiple courses gives one a huge advantage in continuity of education compared to having multiple instructors for one course. Especially when you consider the dedicated full time faculty have been teaching for many years. Not CRNAs who come in on their days off to rattle off some powerpoints that some didn't even prepare themselves. When looking at both programs, one would be foolish to choose UC over Akron. Akron also has a well above average board pass rate. Something like a 96-98% pass rate on average. Last year they had 100%. UC can not boast this. And this is a program who has almost a 0% attrition rate. They CARE about the students and not about what a crabby CRNA thinks. If you have trouble in a particular clinical site they will move you. They are VERY student friendly where UC is not. Do your due diligence in research of programs before you select one. Every program has faults but you will be hard pressed to find fault in Akron's program. It is a very difficult program to get into and their interview process is tough but they do this for a reason. If I'm not mistaken UC also has a new director who has never been a program director before. So, he has very little experience running a program, which can cause a lot of issues in regards to how smooth the program operates. Choosing a program where faculty have been stable over a number of years has a smoother educational experience. Just do the research and you will see. I am not sure about Case but I doubt they can boast about what Akron has done and does do on a yearly basis.

I got in at Akron! I'm excited to begin. It was a tough interview but I hung in there. You can't over prepare. That's the best thing to do. Good luck to everyone!

Xxxxxx

johnson, I was trying to send you a message but not sure how to do that. I am applying to Akron this year and wanted to see if you could give me any words of wisdom on the interview, the classes thus far, teachers, etc. Everything you can would be great. Did you take any of the classes before you went to your interview? How is the physiology classes? I have had phys but they are wanting me to take them again up there. Can't wait. ha Anyway, hope to hear from you soon and all the info you can give me.

I personally would look elswhere for another program. I have a friend who went there and said the program is not that good. The only reason they get the "ranking" they do is because of the clinical experience. They are in a huge transitional period with a director who has ZERO experience running a CRNA program. The lady before him is now the executive director of the AANA. She left last year and this new guy took over. The guy has no experience running a program and they are transitioning to a doctorate program. Not to mention the "teachers" they have also have little experience teaching anesthesia inside or outside the classroom. They are mostly recent graduates. For one course you may have 4 people teaching it. UC does this to save money on hiring fulltime professors. They give each CRNA a small bonus for helping to teach a class. Instead of having dedicated faculty they get a bunch of grads to drop in on their days off to teach you anesthesia. My friend told me that it was a joke the way they taught and that everyone in class said that they would never think UC was as highly ranked as they are considering how unorganized the program is. I think it gets its ranking stricly on the fact it was run by the former president of the AANA and now executive dir. of the AANA and that it is a level 1 trauma center. It has nothing to do with how great the teachers are. Not only that, but he said in clinicals it can be like hazing. Some CRNAs (especially the women) would treat you like a piece of crap and act annoyed that they even had to teach you. If they don't like you and you are passing but just hanging on to the edge of your grades, they will find a way to get rid of you in their program. His class lost 6 students in the 1st year!! 6 freakin students!! That is a VERY high attrition rate. They will do anything to can you if they don't think you will pass boards. They want their pass rates high and if it means ruining you financially and emotionally, they will do it. It's all they care about. Not to mention their peds rotation they essentially leave you by yourself in the 1st week. My friend said he had no clue how to give anesthesia to a child yet they would just leave him there the entire case. He said soon they would just leave him all day to do anesthesia even on babies with no one to come and see how he was doing. How scary is that?! Remind me not to take my child there to get surgery. This was at Children's Hospital by the way. Can't imagine how the parents would feel if they knew their child was being put to sleep by a 1st year CRNA student. Scary. I would avoid this program at all costs but that is just my opinion. They are not what they seem to be. Some CRNAs in clinical will flat out lie and make things up that you did or did not do to get you in trouble if they don't like you. They are like a bunch of sharks. If they smell blood and you get nervous they will all just eat you alive. It is pathetic. I have talked to other former students who said the same thing about the program. There are much better programs out there. My suggestion is to focus on smaller programs with dedicated faculty and not so many adjunct faculty who could care less if you graduate or not.

I am currently a student at MSU and I must say the program is very challenging from all aspects. It is not easy and there are some problems that need to be addressed to make the program run smoother. We do have a new director in which the old one resigned due to some internal issues with the university, which I can't go into on here. If I had it to do over again I would have applied some other places and tried to get in, but having said that the idea of this program can and has worked. There are many people who have taken and passed boards their first time and as many as 8 from the last class to take boards have passed thus far. You have to be VERY self disciplined to study, but depending on your learning ability you can take days off in the week to do things. Just have to make sure you are getting through your material. It is a self motivating program because you are not in class everyday. If you don't think you can force yourself to study at home and you need to be in class face to face with professors every day, then this is NOT he program for you. The new director is just getting started and he is trying to work out some kinks, which are rather large. I think it can get much better and some of the classes we have are not as focused on anesthesia as I think they should be but that may change. Our pharm class so far is taught by the med school teachers at the nearest DO school, so we are getting a well rounded education on meds, but not anesthesia focused enough I believe. Our last semester may be like that but not so far. I am hoping that changes. We did lose a couple clinicals sites recently due to some of the decisions the school has made in the past, so I am not sure where that will lead. Just be sure that if you are thinking about this program that you are will to travel for school and clinicals because you most likely will have to do that. We go to class about once every 2 1/2 weeks to take tests and do labs. The reputation of the school has been tarnished a little lately, with getting a new director, losing some clinical sites and so forth though. Pass rate on boards for the first class that graduated was around 75% I believe (18 people). The second class just graduated and are in the process of taking their boards. So far I think like 8 have passed, but not for sure out of how many that is. AANA came a couple months ago for an eval, which had nothing to do with the problems we were having. They found the problems and I am guessing have relayed to the program for fixing. Not sure what that will mean. We are hoping things will get better but who knows. I think the program can work but it will depend on how they handle this transition of a new director and what they let him change or not change. If I were a student considering CRNA school at this point I would not consider MSU until those kinks were fixed. Maybe give it a year before you try them. Just my honest opinion. I think the curriculum will get fixed but it may take a year or so. I have never been to a CRNA school before so I have nothing to compare it to. Only thing I have done is look up other programs online to compare our work to theirs. Other schools seem a little more focused on anesthesia training rather than training broadly like we do at this time. Can't expect a DO pharm teacher to teach anesthesia because he doesn't do anesthesia. That is one of the major concerns I have with the program. I think if people are passing boards then there is no reason why they shouldn't work as a CRNA. Whether you come from MSU or VCU, if you pass your boards you should be able to work as a CRNA. That is what the boards are for.