Universal Health Care... what would this mean...

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hypothetically, how would universal healthcare affect us as nurses? the demand? our salaries? ive had a taste of the whole universal healthcare thing with the movie Sicko coming out and the upcoming election... but i dont know enough to say anything... any ideas?

:cheers:

Universal Health Care or not-supported by hardworking taxpayers or not-noncompliant or not---we all must live our own lives.

What good is life if it isn't enjoyed?

Who are we to tell the non-compliant how to live their lives? or that they are wrong? If this is their life-so be it.

And-not everyone needs therapy, just because they think differently than health care workers.

I am very offended that people place non-comliance into a mentally unhealthy catogory. Who are we to decide what makes a person's life worthy to them.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. So, if it doesn't make you happy to financially support health care for everyone, including the "non-compliant", well, don't know what you will do. You already pay for local schools, roads, government costs, etc..

This isn't meant toward anyone in particular, but having read these threads, I wanted to voice my opinion about non-compliance.

I have witnessed many a health care professional offend patients with their insistance that the patients be compliant. Educate, inform, then leave them alone. That is called treating others as I want to be treated. (I never chase down AMAs either-unless their are other circumstances)

Now, getting off my soap box and back to Universal Health Care, how many banana splits a week will be allowed? I may have to start stockpiling.

Life is too darn short.

I do understand the frustration with working with non compliant patients and I think it is harmfull to enable, BUT, life is so short, can end so quickly.Case in point, my daughter's future mother in law, perfect health, thin as a rail, health food junky, died suddenly last month from a subarachnoid hemorrhage. It is so easy to judge.Why is it so hard to show compassion, without being labeled an ENABLER?
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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
so, if it doesn't make you happy to financially support health care for everyone, including the "non-compliant", well, don't know what you will do. you already pay for local schools, roads, government costs, etc..

........ educate, inform, then leave them alone. that is called treating others as i want to be treated. (.

absolutely, totally believe in the freedom of sane adults to make any choices they'd like that don't harm anyone else!!

want to get drunk and high and ride your motorcycle 98 mph in an abandoned quarry while you eat a bacon thickburger and then have unprotected sex with twenty other consenting adults???

fine with me-its a free country.

the fly in the ointment is those folks who beleive in these american freedoms--except--

when they are injured, ill, or in pain from above, want "the system" to make them all better, quickly and for free.

if every individual who wants to live wild and free would sign a "do not treat", dnr, and organ donor card, i'd light their joint and buy 'em a tank of gas....:smokin:

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
why is it so hard to show compassion, without being labeled an enabler?

compassion: (noun) a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune; accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.

enabler (noun) one that enables another to acheive an end, especially one who enables another to persist in self destructive behavior by providing excuses or by helping that individual avoid the consequences of such behavior.

[bold emphasis mine, italics ver batim.]

my dear departed grandmother, when faced with whining and complaining and excuses , used to state..

"you want sympathy? it's in the dictionary between sucker and syphilis!":bugeyes:

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"if every individual who wants to live wild and free would sign a "do not treat", dnr, and organ donor card, i'd light their joint and buy 'em a tank of gas....:smokin:"

this is exactly what i am talking about-unless a person lives by certain rules-they are not worthy of health care.

is the term 'enabler' now being used in conjunction with non-compliant behavior related to health issues? when a mother takes her children to eat fast food- unhealthy burgers, fries, soda, is she an enabler? or is that only if they are already obese? where does that fine line begin and end?

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.

this is exactly what i am talking about-unless a person lives by certain rules-they are not worthy of health care.

quote]

no.........

it is not a matter of "worth", its a matter of economics--limited funds, unlimited wants and needs.

make the choices you want, and accept the results. that's what resonable adults do. if you don't have the money to care for yourself when the result of your choices gets ugly and/or expensive...

..should the rest of us have to pay instead???

there is a reason sky-divers and 400 lb smokers have trouble getting life insurance--all insurance is bet between the insurer and the odds.

old county saying thats states "don't let your mouth write checks your butt can't cash".

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"if every individual who wants to live wild and free would sign a "do not treat", dnr, and organ donor card, i'd light their joint and buy 'em a tank of gas...."

kinda of a tough statement.. where do we draw the line.. ie: you ate too many cheese burgers, so why am i paying for your illnesses due to obesity? or abuse of prescribed pain meds.. or alcoholism.. or simply falling down stairs due to high heels.. where do we draw the line?

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this is exactly what i am talking about-unless a person lives by certain rules-they are not worthy of health care.

quote]

reply by blueridgehome:

no.........it is not a matter of "worth", its a matter of economics--limited funds, unlimited wants and needs.

make the choices you want, and accept the results. that's what resonable adults do. if you don't have the money to care for yourself when the result of your choices gets ugly and/or expensive...

..should the rest of us have to pay instead???

there is a reason sky-divers and 400 lb smokers have trouble getting life insurance--all insurance is bet between the insurer and the odds.

old county saying thats states "don't let your mouth write checks your butt can't cash".

originally posted by ksilty viewpost.gif

the non-compliant are not running up the big bills. non-compliance means no doctor visits and no medications. as someone who monitors claims data on a regular basis, i can tell you that it is only when i step in and am successful at resolving an a1c of 12.0, that the bills go up. one hospitalization for an amputation is often cheaper than the on-going care to prevent comorbidities. this is just a generalization, of course, but the "facts" we hear are always misleading. if i could move my diabetic patients to the point where they are controling their glucose levels through diet and exercise, we would truely save money. but i have to spend some money to get to that point.

posted by jolie: i respectfully disagree that non-compliance = no bills. please read the examples i gave in my response to ingelein. they included 1.) morbidly obese patients receiving inpatient care at great expense to taxpayers, who at the same time have food brought into the facility for them. 2.) my aunt who refuses to comply with daily diabetes care, yet repeatedly calls 911 and takes an ambulance ride to the er for episodes of hypoglycemia, has had numerous expenses related to care of non-healing wounds and injuries and 3.) my overweight, sedentary, non-compliant diabetic neighbor who died after his
fourth
cabg operation.

i understand your point that initial care and management of chronic diseases is expensive, more so than "doing nothing." but i find it hard to believe that auntie's repeated trips to the er and various specialists are a bargain compared to daily diabetes care, or that my neighbor's 4 open heart surgeries were less expensive than routine management of the chronic conditions he chose to neglect (until he suffered chest pain, that is.)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22995659/

actually, it's a long, healthy life that costs more

treating obesity and smoking is cheaper than keeping folks fit, study says

dated 7:00 p.m. ct, mon., feb. 4, 2008

london - preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it doesn't save money, researchers reported monday.

it costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"it was a small surprise," said pieter van baal, an economist at the netherlands' national institute for public health and the environment, who led the study. "but it also makes sense. if you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

in a paper published online monday in the public library of science medicine journal, dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.
the researchers found that from age 20 to 56, obese people racked up the most expensive health costs. but because both the smokers and the obese people died sooner than the healthy group, it cost less to treat them in the long run.
cancer incidence, except for lung cancer, was the same in all three groups. obese people had the most diabetes, and healthy people had the most strokes. ultimately, the thin and healthy group cost the most, about $417,000, from age 20 on.

the cost of care for obese people was $371,000, and for smokers, about $326,000.the results counter the common perception that preventing obesity will save health systems worldwide millions of dollars.

thanks to oz2 for posting this article.
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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.

"actually, it's a long, healthy life that costs more" from post by engelein above

ok, so let's do away with funding healthcare altogether, since we have evidence that it is neither necessary nor cost-effective.

problem solved!!!

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.
"if every individual who wants to live wild and free would sign a "do not treat", dnr, and organ donor card, i'd light their joint and buy 'em a tank of gas...."

kinda of a tough statement.. where do we draw the line.. ie: you ate too many cheese burgers, so why am i paying for your illnesses due to obesity? or abuse of prescribed pain meds.. or alcoholism.. or simply falling down stairs due to high heels.. where do we draw the line?

it would involve tough choices, but the bottom line would likely come down to what we all face in malpractice suits and other litigation-- what the hypothetical "reasonable and prudent" individual would do under similar circumstances.

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I don't know of any "reasonable and prudent" people who lead a 100% healthy life.

What percentage of unhealthy life style would be counted against us?

We DO have the money are resources to provide health care to all. We are not in any kind of survival mode.

Since we give health care to our criminals, we have already established, as a country, that we will treat people as humans, no matter what their actions.

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"it would involve tough choices, but the bottom line would likely come down to what we all face in malpractice suits and other litigation-- what the hypothetical "reasonable and prudent" individual would do under similar circumstances."

and what is reasonable to you, might not be to me.. ie: i exersize everyday, sleep 8 hours and eat 4- servings of fruits and vegetables everyday, however at 50 i have never had a mammo.. if i get breast ca, does that mean i knew what the risks were and don't deserve treatment?.. what if you got mammograms on a regular basis, but were obese, same question..chances are we all live under different rules and have different bad habits.. who is to judge?

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Specializes in Home Care, Hospice, OB.

we do have the money are resources to provide health care to all. we are not in any kind of survival mode.

.

ok-i'll bite? where is this money, and who "owns" it?

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