Thinking about applying to UIC's GEP program. Anybody here applied and was accepted? What were your stats?
My stats: 3.2 Overall GPA/3.5 Sci BA in Sociology. Office Manager in home health care, tech in a medical equipment co, medical assistant (no cert) in dr's office and later office manager there. Volunteering in Nursing Home around 120 hours...
From what I can tell on their website, after completing the NCLEX, you immediately start the master portion of the program. Is this correct?
I have a question for anyone with any insight. This ongoing discussion about how it's hard for GEP grads to get RN jobs, either during the APN portion of school or even once you have your APN license, for only the lack of a BSN degree seems to be a trend among many masters-entry program discussions. I was wondering if this is true among all types of RN jobs or if this is specific to hospital RN jobs? I have a background in primary care and am hopeful to work as an APN in primary care, so having not worked in a hospital I've been wondering if this job requirement of "BSN status" is simply a hospital requirement like so many other hospital rules/requirements/standards/what-have-yous. Or is it an industry-wide ignorance of masters-entry programs and their curricula, meaning the majority of RN jobs in all settings require BSN degrees?
It is scary to think that this problem may be part of the reason for eliminating the GEP program (of course I understand DNP may also have a lot to do with it). And like I said, people are having this discussion on other schools' forums as well so it's not just us, although the problem may be worse in Chicago. I would think experience in any hands-on patient setting would trump a check-box like BSN vs. RN, especially considering the fact that whether it's BSN or RN, we all have to pass the same NCLEX and are all clearly first-year practitioners after that.
Or are we getting bad information from disgruntled people who don't try that hard to get a job, or maybe they're devastated if their first job isn't the ideal? I'm not judging, I really have no idea, because like I said, I come from PC so my information about the rest of the medical world is limited. But since my end goal is to be an APN, and I've had my fair share of less than ideal jobs, spending a few years getting experience in any RN role would be nice...as long as they'll hire me without a BSN. Thoughts?
I agree. A lot of direct-entry programs that do NOT have the combined BSN/MSN seem to have this issue. Unfortunately like yourself, I don't know if there is an across the board preference for BSN grads, but I do know that BSN grads are preferred in hospitals; there's no question about that. A relative of mine works in one of LA's bigger hospitals and when we talk, she tells me that pretty much all the RN's there have a BSN. I imagine it's the same in Chicago.
As ncami said, our end goal is to be APN so not having a BSN isn't a big blow to us, but at the same time, it seems we need the BSN to find a job and to get experience so that when we want to be NP's or CNS's, we can get hired. Seems to be quite the conundrum. I'm hopeful that I will be able to find work in my specialty (mental health), which isn't as popular, but then again, nothing is really promised. Also, I'm hoping that the faculty and staff at UIC really do try to advocate on our behalf in these hospitals, clinics, etc. I know one of the issues that goes along with the hiring problem is the the economy; older nurses do not want to retire right now! I don't blame them because we all need money (lol) but as reported, there's no real shortage in nursing currently.
I don't necessarily know how to feel about the students who have posted negative remarks about the program. I definitely don't want to completely throw out their remarks, especially since they seem to be justified by what the faculty is saying. I'm with you when you say you'll take any job you can find! I guess it's just the matter of finding the job and then once you find it, are you okay being paid whatever amount they're paying you for the next 2-3 years of your Master's? While simultaneously taking out loans to pay for your education? Hoping that once you do receive your MSN, you'll be able to find a job as an NP?
I’ve talked with many people about the BSN thing and this is what I can share from their perspectives. The no-BSN issue is most problematic at the magnet hospital level in large cities. If you are willing to expand your job search into suburban and rural areas and not focus solely on hospitals, you are going to have more luck. While in most places there isn’t really a nursing shortage, Western North Dakota and much of Texas seem to be very easy places to find jobs right now. The coordinator was telling me she had two people move to Texas and both received multiple job offers within only a few weeks. Chicago, NYC, Boston, LA, SF, etc. are not the ideal places to look for jobs. Like anything in life, flexibility is key. I personally do not want to work at an LTC facility (not because of the patient population, but rather the very vile environment many nurses have told me about), however looking in to those options will definitely help. I haven’t gotten the impression from ANY nurse that I’ve talked to that the majority of all RN jobs in ALL settings require BSN degrees.
It sounds like the majority of students (95%+) got jobs after the first 15 months, it has just taken a lot longer than normal. The coordinator also told me she thinks the one or two that didn’t get jobs weren’t flexible enough. Also, I’m not sure if that majority of students was referring to all students or just PNP.
And sitten is right; this problem is also compounded by the economy. Nurses either are not retiring, coming out of retirement, or going back into nursing after some time off if their spouse lost their job. That being said, the economy seems to be affecting ALL nurses across the board, albeit to varying degrees. Look around at some of the “can’t find a job posts” here on AllNurses and you’ll see all levels of nurses having trouble.
Also sitten, about that post we saw a couple months back about negative reviews of the program… While I would not argue with that student’s perception of the program, I must say that a lot of those fears were diminished after my interview. The faculty very clearly know where the problems lie. Like I said before, the coordinator was very, very honest with me. This is what I tell myself: In most fields right now, there is no guarantee of a job anywhere right now. Pursue your passion; the economy HAS to get better eventually. Yes, I still worry about finding an RN job, but I am more confident that it will work out with some hard work and creativity on my part. Network, network, network!
I’ve talked to a few NP preceptors and they have told me that no NP experience is not nearly that big of a deal when finding the first job. Hopefully this does not change anytime soon. With the new healthcare laws, I don’t think it will especially for anyone hoping to go into primary care.
We just need to get that first RN job. I forgot to ask about this in my interview so if anyone else would I’d appreciate it---there seems to be many nurse residency programs popping up for new grads. Is that an option to consider for UIC students or does it not really work out with the class schedule? If so, does the same BSN/non-BSN problem apply to nurse residency programs at magnet hospitals?
To add to hi616's post it really sounds like the faculty truly care and advocate for the students. They put in a lot of effort on the students' behalf. Many other programs would expect master's level students to find their own preceptorships etc and at least for PNP the school has our backs! I also asked about research opportunities with the faculty and if there is funding available they do look for RAs from all programs. Unfortunately I did not ask about residency programs-I wish I'd seen your post before hand!
Just got done talking to one of my friends who is an NP at a magnet hospital in Chicago, and she answered honestly about a few things if anyone is interested...
-When I asked about being about to find a job as an RN (against BSN) while taking classes towards the masters portion
"You can find certain hospitals to work in, but if they are Magnet then you probably would not be able to find a position in those. There are hospitals in the city that aren't Magnet.You can probably find a position in a doctors office as well without BSN. you can find a non-Magnet hospital of doctors office to work in....I don't think it will be too hard especially if it is a part-time position"
- I asked about once getting APN degree, does the RN/BSN thing really matter.
"When you get your NP degree they will accept you -- it's another state board you have to pass and an NP is that no matter what degree you had before.
Finally I asked about the job market for nursing when we would be getting out of school...
"I think the job market for NP's is going to be great now that Obamacare is coming around. There will be a greater need for NP's because of the amount of people gaining insurance and the lack of PCP's - NP's will be doing a lot more than they have been.) I do not believe we have anything to worry about!
I was really surprised to not see University of Chicago on there. They must have not gotten their magnet status renewed unless I'm just completely glossing over them.
thank you all for posting quality answers to my big question. this bsn v rn thing had never crossed my path, all the np's i've worked with never brought it up, so i was getting worried that i'd never heard of this major issue. but i've been feeling relieved by your answers, so thank you again.
just out of curiousity, what about being hired in a magnet if you are already an np, but without a bsn? or do we just have to accept never working in a magnet?
good luck with your interviews and keep posting info from those days. since my interview will be 1 hour long, in a group, with no info session attached, i'm enjoying hearing what is said at other peoples' interview days.
Hey hopefullady, NP trumps BSN, you should not get any push back from magnet hospitals. It's really only a problem after the first 15mos when students get their RN. Unfortunately despite the rigor of the programs hospitals are equating GEP students working on their MS portion to applicants with an associate degree and no higher. There are many locations that will employee AD-RNs but it's more difficult and you may not find something directly related to your speciality. This could mean working as a staff nurse somewhere to get more experience before assuming an NP role, most NP positions will want experience in that field.
I'm surprised as well! The interview was less of an interview and more of a chat in my mind. I actually had a great time and I really enjoyed talking to the applicants after the overview. I ended up sitting with the coordinator and a professor emeritus together. Throughout the whole experience I was really struck by how much a community they seem to form. Compared to some of the larger programs I really don't think they would let any student get lost.
I'm a little concerned because I don't think we'll hear back until May 3rd or so. Apparently their deadline is 4/26 and the admissions office could have a week turn around with final decisions. If I don't hear back by the 30th I will probably end up accepting another offer.
Yeah, I like how it was so relaxed and conversational. It makes sense for it to be like that because it proves we have good conversational/communication skills which are vital for our careers. What is the other school you are considering if you don't mind sharing?
Hey sitten, not sure if you will see my response to hopefullady but the staff if very aware of the difficulties students are having. It is only a problem in the time between getting an RN and graduating with an MSN. If you do not find work in your speciality as an RN it could mean accepting a BSN/staff nurse position immediately after graduation and then going on to an NP role (or not, it all depends on the market!). It sounds like a couple students in the PNP tract are working at UIC hospital and the coordinators are being very flexible. One student is going to work in the Milwaukee area and take the online core classes for the first few semesters. One of the nice things about PNP (and maybe the other specialities) is all coordination for preceptorships and clinicals is done by the faculty. Most other masters programs expect the students to find their own which can be very difficult, especially in an area like Chicago with so many programs.
I'm surprised as well! The interview was less of an interview and more of a chat in my mind. I actually had a great time and I really enjoyed talking to the applicants after the overview. I ended up sitting with the coordinator and a professor emeritus together. Throughout the whole experience I was really struck by how much a community they seem to form. Compared to some of the larger programs I really don't think they would let any student get lost.
I'm a little concerned because I don't think we'll hear back until May 3rd or so. Apparently their deadline is 4/26 and the admissions office could have a week turn around with final decisions. If I don't hear back by the 30th I will probably end up accepting another offer.
This post seriously just made my day! I have a seat reserved at Marquette and it starts on may 28th. I am very happy to know that UIC will let us know before that! At this point, I am rooting only and only for UIC. It's funny when you start preparing for an interview.... You undergo transformation for that school as you're doing extensive research about it on the side. It makes me fall in love with UIC even more.
Good to know your interview went well. I wish you the best!
hopefullady
11 Posts
I have a question for anyone with any insight. This ongoing discussion about how it's hard for GEP grads to get RN jobs, either during the APN portion of school or even once you have your APN license, for only the lack of a BSN degree seems to be a trend among many masters-entry program discussions. I was wondering if this is true among all types of RN jobs or if this is specific to hospital RN jobs? I have a background in primary care and am hopeful to work as an APN in primary care, so having not worked in a hospital I've been wondering if this job requirement of "BSN status" is simply a hospital requirement like so many other hospital rules/requirements/standards/what-have-yous. Or is it an industry-wide ignorance of masters-entry programs and their curricula, meaning the majority of RN jobs in all settings require BSN degrees?
It is scary to think that this problem may be part of the reason for eliminating the GEP program (of course I understand DNP may also have a lot to do with it). And like I said, people are having this discussion on other schools' forums as well so it's not just us, although the problem may be worse in Chicago. I would think experience in any hands-on patient setting would trump a check-box like BSN vs. RN, especially considering the fact that whether it's BSN or RN, we all have to pass the same NCLEX and are all clearly first-year practitioners after that.
Or are we getting bad information from disgruntled people who don't try that hard to get a job, or maybe they're devastated if their first job isn't the ideal? I'm not judging, I really have no idea, because like I said, I come from PC so my information about the rest of the medical world is limited. But since my end goal is to be an APN, and I've had my fair share of less than ideal jobs, spending a few years getting experience in any RN role would be nice...as long as they'll hire me without a BSN. Thoughts?