2012 UCSF MEPN Applicants

[LookingAhead]

The MEPN deadline is less than 2 months away, so I thought I'd get a thread started for us 2012 hopefuls!

I'm a first time applicant to the WHNP/CNM specialty, and feel like I've been getting ready to submit this application for so long! I've been working abroad for a public health NGO for the past couple of years and am a trained birth doula. I've finished up all of my prereqs and GREs, selected people for recommendations (including a slightly awkward visit to my undergraduate advisor...), so now I'm just drafting my essays. Does anyone even know what the application is supposed to look like this year? I'm just going off samples I've seen from previous years.

Some days I feel sort of confident about my chances, and other days I feel as though this is a total shot in the dark and definitely not going to work out!

Any other hopefuls out there? And anyone know when the application is actually going to open?

[t_heart]

Like many of you, I'm very concerned about taking on 6-figure debt. I've been debating whether or not to stay in my state and obtain a BSN from my state's university, work for a year or two, and then do the grad portion to become an NP. This could also help reduce the controversy of becoming an NP without any nursing experience. However, after doing the math, it looks like it will be actually more cost efficient to do the direct-entry route (believe it or not) and go to UCSF if I'm able to get residency for the master's portion of the program. For me the BSN and then NP route will take probably 5-6 years (including a bit of time to work in between BSN and NP) and considering the extra year or two of tuition (even though in-state), the living expenses, and the reduced income (and potential income) all make it more costlier in the end. If choosing UCSF, I'm already thinking about taking a year off after the 1st year to practice my fledgling nursing skills and to reduce a bit of debt. The con of this is that you will have to immediately pay back loans once not in school which is tricky if you don't find a job right away. However, this could also be a foot-in-the-door to later reducing hours when I'm in the master's portion. I'm also trying to take some comfort in that some hospitals offer tuition reimbursement after a certain amount of service.

I know the current MEPNs in my info session last month mentioned some type of scholarship or grant but I didn't catch the name of it--anyone else have an idea? What are some other people's thoughts about finances?

Myelin--is it really that easy to get residency in CA? I thought that if you moved to another state for the sole purpose of attending school (even if you register to vote, obtain residency, register your car, etc) that this time does not count toward residency...

[t_heart]

By the way, here's UCSF's site about establishing residency... I guess another benefit to taking a year off is to pay in-state tuition for the master's portion of the program...

[LookingAhead]

I concluded the same thing about doing direct entry - financially it's more painful upfront, but it's more economical in the long run. The issue about taking time off to work after the MEPN year is that UCSF doesn't award a BSN - so you'll be a new RN, with no BSN, looking for a job in a city with a huge glut of new grads. It could takes months to find a job, and then the MSN portion will be starting only a few months after that...ugh. What a mess.

Here's a website (not UCSF, but Berkeley) that explains a bit better the issues about residency: Legal Residence Information - Office Of The Registrar.

Yes, if you're in the state just for educational purposes you aren't supposed to get residency. But there are ways that you show that you are actually resident in the state (basically, by not flying back to wherever your previous home was every time you have a vacation):

Who is a California Resident? If you are an adult who is not an alien present in the U.S. in a nonimmigrant status which precludes you from establishing domicile in the U.S. (e.g., a B, F, H2, H3, or J visa) and you want to be classified as a resident for tuition purposes, you must have established your continuous presence in California more than one year immediately preceding the residence determination date for the semester during which you propose to attend the University, and you must have given up any previous residence. You must also present objective evidence that you intend to make California your permanent home. Evidence of intent must be dated one year before the term for which you seek resident classification. If these steps are delayed, the one-year durational period will be extended until you have demonstrated both continuous presence and intent for one full year. Physical presence within the state solely for educational purposes does not constitute the establishment of California residence under state law, regardless of the length of your stay. In addition, the Financial Independence requirement must be met. Your residence cannot be derived from your spouse nor, since you are an adult, from your parents. Likewise, a registered domestic partner does not derive residence from the other registered domestic partner.

Establishing Intent to Become a California Resident Indications of your intent to make California your permanent residence can include registering to vote and voting in California elections; designating California as your permanent address on all school and employment records, including military records if you are in the military service; obtaining a California driver's license or, if you never had a driver's license from any state, a California Identification Card; obtaining California vehicle registration; paying California income taxes as a resident, including taxes on income earned outside California from the date you establish residence; establishing a California residence in which you keep your permanent belongings; licensing for professional practice in California; and the absence of these indications in other states during any period for which you claim California residence. Documentary evidence is required. All relevant indications will be considered in determining your classification. Your intent will be questioned if you return to your prior state of residence when the University is not in session.

Temporary Absences

If you are a nonresident student who is in the process of establishing California residency for tuition purposes and you leave California during nonacademic periods (for example, to return to your former or parent's home state), your presence in California will be presumed to be solely for educational purposes, and only convincing evidence to the contrary will rebut this presumption. Students who are in the state solely for educational purposes will NOT be classified as residents for tuition purposes, regardless of the length of stay.

If you are a student who has been classified as a resident for tuition purposes and you leave the state temporarily, your absence could result in the loss of your California residence. Again, only strong evidence will rebut the presumption that you are/were in California solely for educational purposes. The burden of proof will be on you to verify that you did nothing inconsistent with your claim of a continuing California residence during your entire absence.

If you are a minor student, your residence is determined by the residence of the parent(s) with whom you live or last lived, and you would not lose that residence unless you perform acts inconsistent with a claim of permanent California residence.

Some steps that you (or your parent(s) if you are a minor student) should take to retain resident status for tuition purposes are:

• Satisfy California resident income tax obligations. It should be noted that individuals claiming permanent California residence are liable for payment of income taxes on their TOTAL income, including income earned outside the state (abroad or in another state).
  
• Continue to use a California permanent address ON ALL RECORDS (educational, employment, military, etc.).
  
• Attend an out-of-state public institution as a non-resident for the entire period of enrollment there.
  
• Retain your California voter's registration and vote by absentee ballot.
  
• Maintain a California driver's license and vehicle registration. If it is necessary to change your license or registration while temporarily residing in another state, the license MUST be changed back to California within 10 days of the date of return to the state, and the vehicle registration must be changed within 20 days of the date of return.
  
• Return to California during your vacation periods.
  

[myelin]

exactly. Becoming a CA resident is not very hard at all. They don't have the strict rules that other states do about working there full time for a year, etc. Basically, as long as you register to vote, register your car, get a CA driver's license, and make sure you do your banking in CA... you're good to go.

[drmng2bamidwife]

SO excited to be joining the 2012 MEPN cohort! I'm in for CNM/WHNP after applying TWICE before (first year, rejected no interview, second year interviewed then wait listed). Folks that didn't make it this year, keep trying if it's really what is in your heart!

I too am concerned with the debt, especially considering I still have debt from earning an MPH Anyone have any luck finding out information about grants or scholarships?

[LookingAhead]

That's hardcore - I don't think I would have had the patience to go through the process even a second time!

Re: grants/scholarships, here's a bit of info: Financial Support: Scholarships, Aid, Opportunities Available from the School of Nursing | UCSF School of Nursing

[t_heart]

LookingAhead and myelin... Ah, so if you can prove that you're disconnecting ties with your state even if the move was prompted by education, you can still obtain residency easily in CA... Thanks for the clarification! Also, LookingAhead--good point that the lack of BSN will make the job search difficult...plus I wonder when licensure will come through after taking the NCLEX.

[magallanes]

I concluded the same thing about doing direct entry - financially it's more painful upfront, but it's more economical in the long run. The issue about taking time off to work after the MEPN year is that UCSF doesn't award a BSN - so you'll be a new RN, with no BSN, looking for a job in a city with a huge glut of new grads. It could takes months to find a job, and then the MSN portion will be starting only a few months after that...ugh. What a mess.

What a mess...agreed. If you think you will have a job offer from a hospital around here (Bay area.... one of the few places in the world with BIG pay for RN's) and know no one in the industry to get your foot in the door, forget about it. Other places in California, not so bad from what I hear. As for the RN without a BSN, it really doesn't matter UNLESS you are trying to get a job at a hospital with Magnet status. The ER I work in (Oakland) has few new grad positions (around 2-4/year) and half of them in the past two years have an AA from one of the local community colleges. What they DID have was extensive work experience in the ER, if not the hospital setting. I would think you are crazy for trying to get a new nursing position (near the end of June 2013?? right) and then trying to start the master's portion shortly (~2 months!) when a new grad position takes at least a full-time position of 4-6 months of TRAINING, before you're even working on our own. Balancing that with school would be a mess, imo.

[t_heart]

Magallanes...totally agree that it would be difficult and everyone's feedback has helped me realize that more. What I meant was to take a year off so I would technically be out of school for 14 months (6/13-8/14)...no way in two months would I expect to be a new nurse! Eek.

I guess my idea to take a year off was informed by my interviewer who let me know that some people in the program do elect to take a year off to work; I had specifically asked her about this year-off option to see what it was all about. In fact, one of the current MEPNs in my info session stated she was planning on taking a year off as well. At this point, I will not bank on taking time off but still want to explore options. I'm also wondering how students in the master's portion find jobs as it seems many of them are working part-time.

[NurseOrange]

Hi Myelin - I'll try to answer your questions! Keeping in mind advice is cheap of course - I can only speak for myself! :)

I signed my post "a proud MEPN", and I am! I feel really fortunate to be at UCSF, part of the MEPN program, and finding nursing in general. To be honest I was not one of the people who did a ton of research ahead of time, I did not apply to other schools for the most part, I was deciding between UCSF and Rush and that was a no brainer for me. My expectations, then, were not as developed as many of the other students coming into the program. I feel like a lot of the cohort had previous experience in some aspect of health care or had worked for UCSF - really impressive people with very high standards! It's great to be around those peers everyday, and I think that passion motivates people to question things like curriculum, professors, organization, diversity issues, and the most important thing of all which is... are we getting what we need to be GREAT nurses?

Disorganization? Sure! Yep. It happens. 75 adults from a billion different backgrounds all getting onto the same train that needs to be done in ONE YEAR is a crazy thing. Some things work, some things don't, and my experience so far has been that faculty makes adjustments even from quarter to quarter in order to avoid some of the organization issues or student frustrations. My advice? Be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, wearing your MEPN scrubs and a flexible attitude. A generalized crankiness creeps over the whole cohort about week 7 of every quarter... and then we rally and it's fine :). Again, I can only speak for myself, but whatever you have heard really isn't that bad.

Clinicals change every quarter, so it's hard to make general comments. I would say there are too many people at some of the community placements, but I don't have that problem with the Med-Surg sites at all (there were two others on my floor over summer and only one for Med-Surg). When I interviewed last year I heard another prospective student say she had talked to students from other schools who weren't allowed to perform nearly the amount of skills we are allowed to on patients in clinicals. I wish I knew more details about that now that I know what we are up to every week, but I can tell you I have felt very encouraged to practice skills on patients and THAT is a cool thing! Over summer you WILL learn skills on Tuesday and you WILL practice them in clinicals that following Thurs/Fri. It's crazy! And so fun :)

I've had a positive experience with the instructors with very little exception. I feel they all have their doors open to students and have demonstrated their willingness to listen to student feedback and make adjustments to their classes. Naturally there are some faculty members you will be more drawn to than others due to teaching styles, personalities, subject areas, etc. There have been individual issues some students have had with specific faculty members that include complaints of unfair treatment or frustration over how certain topics have been presented. I have not personally had any issues like that, and felt fully accommodated when I needed special attention or an excused absence. I personally have loved Med-Surg instruction the most so far. I would add I was the most pleasantly surprised by Childbearing Families, in which MEPNs get a VERY unique experience with thanks to the topics presented that show evidence-based support for midwifery, home birth, and expose students to childbirth in America through a different lens than many other nursing schools. Feather in the MEPN cap for that class for sure. New patho professor next year, yes. I haven't heard any announcements on who that will be yet.

It is feasible time-wise to work during the masters portion but definitely NOT feasible during the MEPN year. Honestly, this question is the topic of the moment for MEPNs because the "step out year" issue is tough. Jobs are hard to find for non-degree licensed RNs. Or at least it feels that way. I would love to work as an RN during the masters portion, but the reality is I feel the message from hospitals out there is that we need a degree to be considered for jobs. So while you might find a job doing something during your masters classes, I'm personally not holding my breath to find an RN job during that time. Plus, being in a new-grad program is a big deal. For me, I would be bummed not to be able to fully devote myself to it because my time was divided so much between work and school. I'm hoping for something less intense that can still help with the bills but we will see. Bottom line at this point seems like it won't be a choice I will be able to make anyway since I feel like I am not competitive as a new-grad applicant until after I have my MSN. Note that every single person you ask this question to will have a different answer from everybody else! It's like the million dollar crapshoot question of the quarter :)

If you really can't have a car, then don't get a car. People carpool all the time. I am only aware of one student who this became the biggest pain in the butt issue for, and everyone else has been able to work out carpool options. But a car is highly recommended for good reason... your life will be less stressful. You can get away with not having one, but it is not ideal. Clinicals are all over the place and the flexibility to change is infrequent. (PS The student who had to go through so much heartburn by not having one ended up buying one after that experience!) Parking generally sucks but it's part of being a San Franciscan! Yes I would definitely recommend living in the Sunset or at least no further than Haight or the Richmond. I haven't heard on-campus housing is that hard - some students live at Mission Bay and that seems to work out great for them. They shuttle to Parnassus no problem.

Do I feel like I have time for the rest of the city?? Hmmm. You're asking during Week 8 of Med-Surg so... NO! haha. Not at all right now. But before, yes. And surely I'll rejoin society again in the future! Right now feels like all MEPN all the time. But MEPNs are awesome... you'll be in really good company either way! Lots of hikers and bikers and "oh god please let's do something NON-nursey" type people who you will be a better human for knowing. You definitely have to be protective of your free time, though... because it really, really, really is few and far between depending on what rotation you are in!

Hope that helps! You are in, right? Where are you deciding between? What specialty? One mistake I made before coming in was thinking the specialties were more important to the MEPN year than they are. This year is about becoming a nurse. And that's quite enough for one year thank you very much! I have never been more humbled or more fulfilled by an experience in my life. I know you will be a good steward of your decision to take a spot in whatever program you choose and remember how many people wanted to be in your clogs!

-NurseOrange

[myelin]

Wow, NurseOrange! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly. Yes, I am in for family psych NP. I'm deciding between Penn and UCSF, but I'm leaning more and more towards UCSF every day. The location and price are superior, plus UCSF is #1 for my specialty, and I want to practice on the west coast anyway. My family roots are in CA, as well. Absolutely, I understand that the MEPN portion is all about becoming a generic nurse. Are you excited to be over halfway done? Do you feel prepared for the NCLEX? Hehe, not to remind you, of course! Have you spoken to any students currently in the MSN portion - are they enjoying it? Hehe, thanks so much, again. :)

[NurseOrange]

No problem myelin! It's a huge decision! And a great decision to have in your court! I don't know much about the Penn program but all of these master's entry programs are competitive and unique and presumably reasonably similar at least as far as the pre-licensure year goes. My applications and decisions were almost entirely based on location, so I definitely get how important that can be in tipping the decision!

Super exciting to be over halfway done, but honestly this year has been really fun, challenging, and fulfilling. I LOVE my cohort and will be sad to be scattered around (and relieved we will still be in some classes together moving forward!). The year goes SO FAST! I think I go through all the normal concerns about NCLEX preparation but am confident I will be ready to take it this summer after setting aside specific time to prepare after MEPN graduation. I believe most of the cohort will take it sometime in July after about 4-6 weeks of prep. The Med-Surg professor is very NCLEX-minded, which is a benefit.

I have not spent as much time tracking down MSN information as I probably should have - it feels like I can only take one step at a time right now! I have friends in the MSN portion (you will get to know former MEPNs through lab days because they help out over Summer) and they are all chugging along well. Some of them are working part time, which is great experience for them - hopefully I will be able to find the same balance! Also, there are nurses in my clinical placement who are currently in MSN programs and are loving it - admittedly I see an advantage of them being able to bring their RN experience to the table. I think this will be a challenge we can all expect to varying degrees moving forward, but that's part of what we sign up for as second-degree students.